As the judging for the Glen Phillips contest wages on, I got a chance to ask Glen about the contest, his views on the music business, Nickel Creek, and more. Many thanks to Lonnie, Mike, Rick, and Marty for submitting interview questions.

Interview with Glen Phillips

Kompoz: It used to be that it was about the singles. Up until the late 60's the goal of the fan was to own that little disk of your favorite song. That song became yours for life. For the artist it was about making that killer single and getting radio airplay.

Then it was about the album. The package was broader, the artist had a larger canvas on which to paint, but the dynamic was still pretty much the same: The fan bought and owned slices of history, the artist wanted to put a couple of radio friendly hooky songs on the albulm to get airplay and sell albums.

Then it was about the tour. The album was still important but the experience of sharing a moment with tens of thousands of fellow fans and buying the t-shirts was a big turn-on for the fan and the artist suddenly had huge marketplaces to add murchandising to the revenue.

These days it seems that music is disposable, mp3's are everywhere and if the cd stops working in your car you just throw it out the window and burn a new one. Album sales are down, stadium tours are gone.

So here's the question: How has your business model changed in the 21st century?

Glen: I don't really know what my business model is. Tour is about the only place I can make a living right now, and I'm actively trying to figure out how to afford being home more. There's TV and film (just like everyone else says), and the ability to make albums at home and have them instantly available. I think one of the best things about the changes in the industry is that there's room for more people to have modest careers. Success is a difficult word - each person has to figure it out for themselves. Right now, success for me would be only playing 40 shows a year, having regular collaborators when I'm home, making more music and less emailphonecallwebmaintinencemyspace busywork - it's more about quality of life than external recognition or big money. I don't expect to ever have the popularity that Toad had, and I don't particularly want it. I'd just like to see more of my friends and family, and maybe put away enough money to retire when I'm 70.

Kompoz. Your newest album, "Secrets Of The New Explorers", is available for download on your site. The tracks are all DRM-free. You've made the studio instrument tracks to "The Spirit of Shackleton" available on Kompoz.com. You obviously are in-touch with the Internet crowd and your fans. How did you get there, and do you think the recording industry will "get it" eventually?

Glen: I don't know if the industry will get it, and I'm not sure that I care. They started to die off as soon as they started acting like the publicly traded companies they now are. Music has never been something that works on a predictable quarterly basis, and there's no way you can ever make a music company work if you only have two months to break in a new artist before you give up. They do fine with front-loaded cross marketed pop, and they've done well by bolstering the success of projects that had already done well in the indie sector, but they stopped innovating or trusting their gut years ago. The industry has only been around since recorded music, which isn't that long, really. Music has been around since before people started using words.

Audiences today expect to be trusted with music - that they will share it to expose others to what they like, but won't steal. I don't think DRM helps anyone (except the companies selling the technology), and I like Creative Commons licensing. I also think that listeners need to understand that they are responsible for our livelihoods. If we're not getting record deals any more, if nobody is risking capital on our careers, then it's vital that our audience sees themselves as patrons of the arts and supports us financially. Maybe we'll have an era of patronage again. There are grants and funding for classical and jazz, for visual arts and dance, but none for songwriters. A modern songwriter has to compete in the open market, which means our jobs become more about marketing than they should be.

I read an essay a while ago titled "1000 true fans", suggesting that if you get 1000 people to spend $100 dollars a year on your work, you would gross $100,000. That seems pretty doable. Of course, in music the overhead can be crazily high, especially on the road. I rent the smallest car my bags will fit in, and sleep on guest beds (sometimes at a stranger's home) whenever I can to keep my touring costs down, but gas prices have tripled and are still going up, and airline costs are about to rise again. I don't tour to spread the word, I tour to feed my family. $100,000 would be a great net, but as a gross for a small business that hopes to have one employee (just someone to go on tour with me on legs longer than a week so I'm not alone for half the year), and have enough left over to record at least one record with decent musicians (getting paid decently) it's not really enough. Maybe 2000 true fans?

Anyway - there's lots of solutions. Jill Sobule has done a great fan funded recording project, which got excellent press coverage (and therefore many more contributions). Ari Hest is doing a 52 song (one per week) project, with fans choosing which will be on an album at the end of the year. And so on and so forth...

Kompoz. What do you think of the Kompoz contest mixes so far? Have you ever done any musical collaboration with someone that you have not met in person?

Glen: It's been fun to see what people are coming up with. I love that Kompoz is there so that people can reach out and find collaborators. I've done a little email recording. People sometimes send me tracks (on DVD or online) to add to. I just did a chorus for MC Frontalot via email. On my album Winter Pays For Summer, the producer (John Fields) got a lot of overdubs handled via iChat. He'd send Andy Sturmer an mp3 of a track, and if Andy liked it he'd have 8 vocal tracks posted the next day on his iDisk. We also had some percussion shipped in from Minneapolis by Ken Chastain.

Kompoz: I'm having a great time listening to the contest entries. It's amazing to me to hear the new ideas and creative efforts from your fans. It's also amazing to me that people from all over the world now can truly interact with your music. They can change it, sculpt it, and become a part of it. Dropping your tracks into GarageBand, Pro Tools, or any software is like being in the studio with you. For us fans, it's an amazing experience. What's it like from the perspective of the artist? How do you think the industry and other artists view the online collaboration movement?

Glen: It's a little intimidating - like showing up in your underwear to a show. Certain tracks can sound a little embarrassing out of context, but...oh well. It's great to get to look under the hood and see how something is put together, though. It can be a great learning experience just to bring up a balance and understand what's going on. To take something apart and start nearly from scratch is also great. It's why I ended up doing a remix of my own - I wanted to see how the song would stand up with a completely different treatment. I enjoy the trend of openness and hope it continues. Peter Gabriel put up the tracks for Shock the Monkey last year, Radiohead had a remix contest for Naked....I can't wait to see what's next.

Kompoz: You released an album with members of Nickel Creek, under the name Mutual Admiration Society. What was it like working with Chris, Sara, and Sean? Who's idea was it to redo "Windmills"?

Glen: I love working with Sean, Sara and Chris. They are great friends, and also the most dedicated musicians I've ever met. The MAS record was made in three days, pretty much live on the floor, including lead vocals. I think Windmills was Sean's suggestion, and it's also one of my favorite Toad songs. I just did a new record with Sean, Sara, Luke Bulla, Pete Thomas, Davey Faragher, Greg Leisz and Benmont Tench. We recorded it in 5 days with Jim Scott, everyone playing together. The only OD's were harmony vocals. It's a great project. They push me two a whole new level, totally out of my comfort zone, and I love it.

Kompoz: You're touring quite a bit these days. Are you finding time to work on new material? What's next for Glen Phillips?

Glen: I'll be working with John Askew, my collaborator on Secrets of the New Explorers, during June. There's a few other ideas on the horizon, including an acoustic retrospective, an ep with Sean, and finishing up a project called Plover with Neilson Hubbard and Garrison Starr. Like I said, I want to tour less and record more. Just haven't made it enough of a reality yet.

Kompoz: What's on you iPod playlist today?

Glen: This American Life. I'm addicted. Also, I listened to the new Daniel Lanois (Here Is What Is) this morning, and a little Jose Gonzales.