The same argument has been made about MIDI. Because "auto-tune" is so artificial, it tends to be used more and more as a deliberate effect rather than to "improve" a poor vocal performance. If Im wrong about this, there must be countless signed acts with incredibly bad vocalists who "need" to use this technology. Auto-tune is just another tool to let you explore even more sonic options - and is neither good or bad. It's very popular at the moment and will eventually burn itself out when the next "new" style comes along.

I think it's very different than MIDI. MIDI does not correct your mistakes. If you strike a D when you should have hit a D#, MIDI does not fix that. Auto-Tune does.

As a deliberate effect, Auto-tune is cool. Karl does it sometimes. And I KNOW Karl can sing (most awesomely). He does not need auto-tune, but he uses it as an effect occasionally, and that's fine.

Does it work on your car?

only on auto-matic transmissions...

I actually like auto-tune precisely for what Raf mentioned about Karl. MIDI may not correct your mistakes - but you could produce a complicated piece of music that would be otherwise impossible to play live as a single musician. It's often been said that MIDI is "cheating" (just like auto-tune) - which is the parallel argument in my earlier comment. They're both brilliant tools. I like them both.

I agree that they sometimes use it too much. It's fun on a techno dance tune, but not on every song! I like voices to sound human. I say fix my bad notes any day, but don't go changing parts of my melody to something completely different. I end up sounding like a dying seal! lol!:)

Maybe the Chinese will put one on the Hummer??

I dont perticuly like it as an effect. Its like 80's drum machines to me. Its just my tastes. I dont like it as a "sound" but these kind of programs as a correction tool, Id be a hypocrit to criticize them. We all cheat in some way. I use midi, program drums, own a digital drumkit. Guitarist use delays. No-one I know has a reverb chamber built onto the back of their home studio. Why do people have to use eq, its all about mic choice/placement/envirment etc. Anyone own guitar rig? you should be ashamed of yourself. That all sounds rediculous but helps me put things into perspective. Guitarist seeking saturation and wanting to sound like there playing 5 guitars at once = Cher wanted to sound like a Robot ( not quite but you get my drift )

Cher was the first time I heard it being used in a modern kinda of way. I thought to myself back then " in 5 mins time, everyone will be using it and in 6 months everyone will be sick of it and it will all be over and I wont have to hear it anymore" what can I say, I was wrong. Once again, comes back to my taste.

To vocalists, for pitch correction, go forth and use your autotune, hopefully our ears will be better for it.

Yup, 80's drum machines. Still hate em. Still hate autotune. The older I get the more I appreciate live acoustic stringed instruments, horns and less-than-perfect vocals.

auto tune, melodyne, delay, reverb, you name it - it doesn't always make a person sound talented. Trust me, I tried. Moreover, it's about how you use them , and not why you use them.

Crap, all that practise when I was younger. You're saying I could have been out on a date instead? Man, what a waste of time. I am going to talk to my mother about this, practise practise practise that's all she said, I did not ask why, come on she's my mother. Dang.

I have a bad attitude too mr ward. I express it with A LOT of distortion.

Disregarding for a moment the use of autotune as an "effect" (which in my opinion is completely legitimate) and concentrating on it as a tool to "fix" music, I have this to say:

Let us first divide music into two categories; music that creates an emotional reaction based on the performance - let us call it "rock n roll" - and music that doesn't.

I call your attention to exhibit A - "Wild Thing" as performed by Jimi Hendrix. A clear rock n roll number. This absolutely wonderful piece of music makes at least me horny. This is good. If we were to apply autotune (and do not forget my favorite hate subject: quantizing) on Mr Hendrix, "fixing" both his out-of-tune guitar and his off-key singing, would it be better music? I say not.

If we - on the other hand - look at a number like "Living on a prayer" by Bon Jovi, the use or non-use of autotune (I suspect it it pitch corrected, he really can't sing that high) is a moot point. Regardless of what is done to that song, it won't make me horny.

"Fixing" a performance is generally more appreciated by people who have a different understanding of music than I do. I have been "fixed" so that a really groovy bass line turned into something completely flat without any rhythm at all. Graphically, however, the beats created a beautiful symmetry with the drums. Too bad it sounded like shit.

However, my opinion is this: if the "fixing" is applied by the performer, it is a tool that helps the performer make the music better reflect his/her intentions. If it is done by anyone else, it is useless and destructive. Having said that, I am happy for the world to keep quantizing and autotuning, it just ain't rock n roll to me.

MIDI, in my opinion has nothing to do with this.

Rock On

B

We should work on something.

most definitely!

And it also struck me: WHY doesn't anyone autotune BB King? All those string-bending notes are WRONG, they are not exact at all, wouldn't it be much better if he played with Synthetically Helped Intonation Tuning (S.H.I.T.) which I hear is vvery big in studiio circles.

I am with you B man, I do not like (S.H.I.T.)
But, tools are tools. If you need a wrench....

Indeed, tools are tools and if the performer employs the tools, the end result will reflect what he/she wants to reflect. I have a wrench, thank you, and I used to have a spanner, but I seem to have thrown it in the works...

Rock On :)

B

How boring would music be if someone hadn't taken that initial step to wind insulated copper wire around a magnet to make the first electric guitar ? Music technology has moved on; It's given us the DAW - and all the digital possibilities we all now take for granted. Whatever sounds we make, if they press all the right emotional buttons, then we've succeeded with the technology. Nonetheless, we can still hit the spot with good old "honest" music without all the extra technology. I suppose at the end of the day, different ears hear different things and audio "fashions" come and go.

The trick to auto tune if used correctly, i have found out in the last few days is not to allow thing to run on auto pilot, unless you are trying to get the tpayne effect. If used in the graph mode and just used on the parts that need correcting i am finding out it saves me tons of hours of repeats if i cant hear my self out of tune. This is a interesting blog and it came right at the time i had just figured out how to use this monster correctly. But i agree that this will be burned out here soon just like the clothes we wear. It is about the tastes in fads; they fade and then then they reappear with a twist.. :)

Bjorn, considering that everything from the sun coming up to the smell of coffee makes you horny, I think it might be a good idea that you get fixed.

Wax on:
I wonder if the over 30 crowd in the 20's heard the sound of electrified guitars and microphones and said it's all artificial, tools for the untalented.

I wonder if the over 30 crowd in the 50's heard the sound of a stratocaster and said the same thing.

I'm pretty sure the over 30's crowd in the late 1700's heard the sound of a pianoforte and said the same thing.

Are us old geezers just part of a nostalgialistic generation witnessing the sound of progress and snubbing it because we've become entrenched in our own concepts of what music should be?

I still hate it, don't get me wrong, I'm just wondering if I'm blinded by nostalgia.

Wax off.

Ah. You do have a point Lonnie. Perhaps I am just a grumpy old man :). The point is very valid, HOWEVER (haha, you did not think you would get away that easy?):

Amplifying a guitar does not changes the notes played, how the fingers move or the synchronisation between the hands. Neither does it change the pitch of the notes. That is my very point. What is being played is what comes out. The skills and emotions or lack thereof of the player are not hidden by amplification. If anything, the mistakes are even more audible :). Furthermore, in the case of effect boxes (which someone is sure to mention next), they can also be said to be "played", i.e. "playing" feedback (ref: Star Spangled Banner of aforementioned Hendrix).

Autotune is something else, it is actually changing the very basis of the performance, the notes. Quantizing (in my book even worse, especially if performed by someone technically skilled but without a sense of rhythm) is the same thing. These are my opinions.

Having said that, I have the fullest respect for - as I think brother Rab pointed out - arriving to the end result by any means you deem neccessary. This is just my personal taste and I "cheat" too, rest assured :)

Do I have to call you again and explain this? :) hahaha. And thanks for the marriage advice by the way, my wife-to-be now thinks I am totally crazy :)

Rock On

B

.. also:

I thought about this last night (not entirely sober) and I came to one conclusion:

If I decide to sing (God forbid) or play keyboard or something else musical that I really have no skills at, if what comes out sucks it is because I suck. I am not better than that. Why do I want to pretend to be?

auto tune huh does that mean I don't have to warm up anymore before i attempt to sing? Maybe I need this auto-tune!!!!!

and some songs are better with your morning voice (NOT warmed up)! lol

Most songs benefit enormously from me not singing on them at all.

lol!

do you think it's a conspiracy to get rid of actual live singers lol they need to change it to auto-vocalist.

I knew this blog post would inspire some conversation! I agree with Bjorn about "Wild Thing" and B.B. King. I'm the sort of person that likes to hear the human element in the music -- the small mistakes, the sound of fingers moving up or down a fretboard. It's magic. I think the part that gets me bothered the most is the use during a live performance. When I pay $100+ for a concert ticket (and that's on the cheap side, these days), I do so because I want to "witness" art and the artist. I don't want to hear a computer.

I went through my record collection. Urgh. I have a really tough job ahead of me if I am to "fix" the following

Keith Richards (vocals and guitar, pitch and timing)
Leonard Cohen (although I fear he will come out as just one single note)
Lou Reed (will probably burn my CPU if attempted)
BB King (those bends are definitely not correct)
Jimi Hendrix (in principle everything he does)
Keith Moon (he really needs to be quantized to normal drumming, and I don't think he really MEANS to hit the toms like that)
Frank Sinatra (MAN, will I have to work on quantizing him, his timing is off the charts)

Why do I want to do this? Because the machine knows better of course. Art should not be too emotional, or at least first be autotuned to perfect pitch and quantized to perfect time. After that, I suggest that all musicians are forced to use the same sounds and that all songs are mixed the same.

I kid.

Come to think of it: why have different songs at all? Surely there must be one singular RIGHT song? That would be much more efficient.

I don't mind it from someone else, but hearing myself off pitch annoys me. The same goes with being in front of or behind the beat. I just get uncomfortable. However as time has past I have become much more capable of hitting the beat or sitting well in the pocket. When I am writing and something doesn't sound right, the first thing I look for is timing problems.

Then there is confidence and security. If you play without these effects and adjustments, I probably have a deep respect for you.

BTW: Anybody ever see the SNL video "I'm on a Boat"? Its auto-tune at its best.

Brannon my Legendary Texan brother :), I think it is each performer's right to use whatever means he/she deems necessary. There is a big difference between "trying and failing" and "being too lazy to even try to learn". Also, one of my least favorite comments is "I fixed the timing on your bass line". If I wanted it timed differently, I would have "fixed" it myself.

In short: We all do what we can to make our performance sound good. I try to as far an extent as possible to not autotune or quantize myself. I have no problem with anyone else doing it :)

An on the subject of confidence (or the lack thereof), I think we all are like that. You for example, Senor El Texano Legendarico, is one of the most talented people I have ever "met". The only person not concurring to this statement is probably yourself :), and I am exactly the same way.

Rock On

B

I think you have a point Bjorn but instead of the one perfect right song, id prefer the perfect tone. Id rather listen to a single sustained bass note for hours then the radio. I really want autotune now cause I would really like to use it on Gordon Ramseys voice, what a song that would make.

That is a GREAT idea, Jason! Imagine how easy auditions would be: "Can you play the note?"

id have to quantize it!!!

My dog didn't ever thank me for "fixing" him either.

So long it sounds gud and puts a smile on one's face.I say use it no harm done ;-)

@Raf, I'm right with ya..
Clark Terry once said "Practicing Jazz is like polishing a turd."

"I'm the sort of person that likes to hear the human element in the music -- the small mistakes, the sound of fingers moving up or down a fretboard. It's magic."

mmm 39 comments, too much to read lol......the only ones who could be actually ruining music are who sell it as who sells necklaces,imposing a fashion by washing ppl minds with huge propaganda on radio and tv,i know is not that easy to explain but you might understand it.....blame on the indian who throw the arrow, not the arrow itself,....the nose has spoken

@Sir William: amplifying a guitar does not change the notes that are played. Read it again until you get it. I did not address the issue of how you play, but the fact that the out-of-tune C note you hold for 2 bars will still be an out-of-tune C note held for 2 bars.

... and I actually DO play my upright the same way as my electric, but that is due to ignorance :)

great topic.... I'm in solid agreement with Bjorn's observations here, but it's all pretty valid, for or against. I've heard it used creatively and artisticly, and that's cool to a point. As a "correctional" tool, it seems pretty sad for music.

what about all those editing and multi takes that nowadays permits to build a great solo from pieces sliced together....deleting wrong parts that even autotune wouldnt be capable of fixing them? or those midi heavy editing,where any who doesnt know how to play very well a keyboard can make pretty time accurate tracks,using those groove quantizing available?...what about the djs?...they dont play a single note, they just select samples from other's music and trigger em....arent they artists? if i got the ideas,but im not great at any instrument, cant i use those tools and create as lonnie says "kick ass music"?

@Fuzz: Good point. I'm guilty of multi-takes. But still, it's different: I have to play the notes correctly on my own. The computer does not correct my solo.

I'm open to anything that sounds good. If I close my mind too tightly, I'll start sounding like those old people who believe the only good music ever written was in the 1940's.... and I'm sure their parents said "why do you listen to that awful JUNK?" and "Spike Jones is ruining music with his slide whistles".

If people want to fix their mistakes, let them. I can usually tell good musicians by the tools they DON'T use. BTW, I use autotune and MIDI. I'm not one of those musicians.

Oh Marty, you young whipper snapper. When I was your age I had to kompoz music with just a stick and a broken paperclip. You kids and your crazy autotuner. Get off my lawn!

it's one thing too if someone chooses to autotune or anything else, a decision of the artist... it's something different if it becomes a requirement, or something imposed by others. It's like the musical equivelent of cosmetic surgury. People may look back in the future and say "that was supposed to be beautiful???". Like Botox, it's transparently artificial. It seems these days, to be a performer, looks are the primary component.... the actual performance is secondary, and the tools used to make these performances acceptable become the norm. Music, like art, doesn't have to be perfect in any or every aspect - and it suffers if made to be so. In the end, the moments that really stick with you are the ones that are out of the norm or unexpected. There is more great music now than ever, it just takes a little more digging beneath the surface rather than being spoonfed the garbage

sorry for the rant

Ron, "Practicing Jazz is like polishing a turd." I love that.
What a great little reminder.

Thanks

I have just been informed that we are all getting sued by Alan™ Jackson©, who apparently owns the rights to the word "turd". He also seems to own all keys except Bb minor, so Autotune will modify its software to tune everything to that open source key.

Bb minor is a fun key to play in.
Specially bass.

It is my favorite on bass and even more so on 12-string guitar, there is something distinctly masochistic about using the 1st fret on a 12-string.

Auto-Tune has taken over almost every song on the radio and it's really began to annoy me at times. However, some of the songs I actually do enjoy The way they used it for an effect was agreeable with the sounds/music they were trying to create.

I guess I don't know whether to Love it or Hate it. When it's being overdone as an effect, like right now, it loses it's creativness but I also like the way it's pushing certain creative boundaries.

Don't get me wrong, I love live acoustic organic sounds, bends and less than perfect voices but I'm really starting to get pulled into the electronic/computerized/creative/experimental types of music where these effects are used as textures, painting colors on a musical palate.

I guess what I'm saying is...using an effect for a creative texture is cool but when everyone is doing it you're not really being creative anymore.

I am with you. It's fine for a millisecond fix on an otherwise great vocal take but to be used like your filling holes in a wall is crap.
I can hear it immediately (once you know what it sounds like it's hard not to). And I actually heard a tune by Ben Folds that he used it in a spot and I was almost disappointed.
I suppose the simpler answer is: Use the tools (i.e. synth, drum machines, etc) to create the landscape and achieve the music. But if used to cheat because you CAN'T sing or play it is the line I think.

What a great blog! Let me put a different spin on this. I lot of you are talking about tools like Autotune in terms of performance - it's taking the feeling out or it's cheating. Maybe it's because many of you are musicians who appreciate the hard work that goes into good musicianship (nothing wrong with that). But what if you're a "non-musician" and are here mostly for the songwriting - after all the site is called "kompoze"! I can't sing or play to save myself and therefore never considered getting involved with music as a kid, but I've always had songs in my head and basically had to wait for technology to catch up before I could contribute anything. I use that quirky German thing called Melodyne to correct my singing (just about every one of my notes is off pitch) and midi let's me get away with sloppy one handed keyboard playing. The end result isn't "broadcast quality" or a great performance but it's good enough to demo to musicians who can then take it to another level.

So if you look at it in those terms this sort of tech isn't ruining music at all - it's offering opportunities to songwriters out there more talented than me who, without these tools, wouldn't be able to share their great songs with us.

Some have mentioned the feeling invoked by "imperfect" music - hendrix etc. I was brought up on 80s music when tech first started having a big impact and (sad though it may seem to some) I'm more moved by machine beats and poised synths. I remember Trent Renzor saying once he preferred the precision of quantising - it can be an effect in itself.

Still, I agree there is a danger in losing the human element of performance - I certainly wouldn't want to "correct" one of Dave Gilmour's solos. In the end, for me it's all about the song. When I listen to the Beatles it's not the solos that get me in (they weren't great musicians) it's the fine melodies and novel use of sounds.

Packaged, over produced music is nothing new - they were doing it in the 60s. The important thing is to know when "correcting" is being used as an effect or to get an idea out and when it's being used to prop up a plastic pop star who can't get it together. That's the problem, sometimes it seems the kids of today can't tell the difference - "look at her, she sings so well, can dance at the same time and that song is so original." In reality she's probably miming, and the song was written for her by someone else who poached the hook from a previous hit that the kids don't know about.

Correction: They weren't great "Players".. they were phenomenal "musicians" ;)

Amen Cranie.

I wasn't going to write....I've been reading for awhile now but thought I would throw my 2 cents in. I have used it in the past for myself. A friend of mine has it. See the thing is I can't sing well.....but.....I can hear it in my head. So when I used it I sang as best I could then I fixed it. It wasn't even me when it was done cause it was in key. A blob here and a blob there then all of a sudden. I have been kicking it around for a bit deciding if I want to buy it. This site is the perfect opportunity to actually use it to convey the idea to someone that can actually sing. I can't put up anything for melodies that I hear now. Not because of embarrassment; I've been playing with you guys long enough now that I don't care, but because my notes are so out of wack that it's impossible to convey what's in my head. I think it would be good for something like that

I'll bet Marty has used his magical voodoo on parts I've kontributed to his projects and I was too dumb to notice. I guess maybe it could be a good thing in the right hands.

even a poisonous black death fart could be a good thing in the right hands

Good point SteveL!

Melodyne and precision editing are the two greatest things that have happened to me in the past 4 years. It's as if I had no arms but was suddenly able to participate in normal life thanks to my new prosthetic arms. I suppose you're also opposed to prosthetic arms, Raf? You monster.

eeeeyoooooooo David, now I need to wash my hands.

Those prosthetic arms explain the scar tissue in your general groin area Matt. I get it now, I thought those scars were from your prison time.

There's a learning curve with prosthetic arms, just as there is with Melodyne. And just as one shouldn't start moving notes around without perusing the manual, one shouldn't start pleasuring one's self with one's brand new metal hand-claw right off the bat. Consult your physician.

I've heard that they are grafting animal arms now instead of those awful metal hook things. Bears have limbs that are approximately the same length, but for some reason only the right one usually takes. There's a charitible society here that provides them for the needy, It's called, um

oh never mind

Oh wait I remember, it's called the NRA.

I hereby declare that any statements made here do not apply to Marty or Kresling. They aren't from this world and reality does not apply ;)

Man, prosthetic arms (in addition to my regular ones) would be so fun.

it's so easy to lash out at auto tune.... I didn't stop to consider all the armless folk that were getting caught in the crossfire. Perhaps now is a good time for quiet reflection, or an all-star benefit concert...."Arm Aid"

I met the guy who came up with a "bodysuit" idea for one of it's Sea Turtles that lost a limb - they tried the prosthetic limb but didn't work...I suppose it kept falling off? ^_^

so the lesson here is... prosthetics don't work for everyone - or not? Just sharing...

Come to think of it, I kontributed to a song I like in here recently but he forgot to check his guitar tuning and it was something like A:446. So being the lazy slug that I am I found it easier to adjust the pitch on his mixdown track rather than retune my bass to him.

I'm a victim of circumstances. At least I have my arms.

A too perfect sound ruins it. Kinda like a perfect woman.. just not the same. I like flaws god damn.

I would like to try a perfect woman before I just reject them out-of-hand.

Tushay Matt

I was in a studio one day. We had 6-7 songs to record in 10 or so hours. A freind did background vocals. Some of us including her had never heard some of the songs before the day. She had lost all hearing in 1 ear and about 70% in the other. This Lady stopped performing 20 years ago, had to give it away because she could no longer hear properlly. She was very self concious on the day. The bassist had to convince her to sing. We said just go for it. The demo was about freinds sharing an experience and not about perfection ( Im a hack drummer myself ).We had very little time for rehearsal, probably a couple of mins for each song.


The engineer did the mixing aswell. He used pitch correction for her vocals. It didnt correct everything but it did help the final product sound better. Im glad pitch correction was used as Im sure she was too. After listening back to the mix, this tool helped give confidence to a Lady who was no longer able to continue here musical career, if only for a day.

Raf has nothing but contempt for the armless and the hearing-impaired. He's the online collaborative world's greatest monster.

I heard that he has been secretly developing a program that will tell him each and every peice of music that uses autotune etc and that he'll soon be employing staff to source the masters for audio mixing/engineers remix and remaster these recordings and re-releasing them as torrents as no-one buys cds anymore anyway.

There will probably come a day when people will sing so pitch-perfect, that the new craze will be "auto de-tune"... many, including the armless, will lament it's electronic meddling on online forums, but few could resist the low low price $2,300,599.99 - that is, unless you want the full "pro" version for just a few 100k more. People will pay the big bucks to see their favorite pop star gyrate and "lip out-of-sync"

RAF IS GAMARA! GODZILA BEWARE. GAMARA IS WORLD DOMINION OF SELF!
BEWARE GAMARA.
BEWARE GAMARA.

Id be happy to do pitch perfectless de-tuned vocals right now for %10 of $2,300,599.99. Im a pro.

OK, I have a confession:

As some of you may have noticed, I actually have been using Autotune for years to adjust my way too perfect vocals to be out-of-key. I find that with the incredibly precise pitch I have, it intimidates people, so whenever I sing, I make sure to calibrate Autotune about a quarter-step off and run my beautiful vocals through it.

You will thank me later.

Rock On

B

I don't mind autotune on backup vocals as much. Probably because I am not good at recording backup vocals. lol

but if anyone here can make fake harmonies on a project of mine, please let me know. :)

I love the armless and the tuned-challenged. I am not Gamara. This got me to thinking: how many other technologies exist that help us humans auto-correct our lives everyday? I bet there are a bunch that we take for granted, or don't even realize we're using. Spel Chekr is an obvious one. Should we take away auto-focus from the photographers? Is Photoshop ruining art? And as Bjorn celebrates his wedding night, should we take away his Viagra?

What does "ruining" mean?
The Acropolis is a ruin,
art just changes.

Spell checker will help spell words correctly but won't help you use the right wons.

LOL... " And as Bjorn celebrates his wedding night, should we take away his Viagra?"
Nice one, Raf !!! He may need a stiff drink before he can come back with a clever anser to that one. Whre are ya, Bjorn ?
[spel-chkr off]

i hate that conyay west does this all the time and it makes me so mad. if you suck don'tget into the buissness

I always hated people that read novels. In my day you had to tell stories from memory. And don't get me started on calculators. Einstein discovered the time space continuum with a pencil. Nowadays we can't even manage to calculate the velocity of a MIDI note without a $2000 computer.

I'm ok with blow up dolls, but they have to be the Model III double amputees. Thats how I justify it. Thats how I roll.

Kanye West is a gay fish

And why do guitarist need tuners, thats just cheating, they should know how to tune there instruments. Same with drummers, we should know how to arrive on bar at the end of a song without click tracks. Arn't we supopose to be able to keep time.

I am the only person i know without a cellphone, hate the damn things. When they release an app for cell phones that will wash the dishes, Ill consider getting one. What the hell has this got to do with Auto-tune, its all Kayne West's fault.

I refuse write something clever before you give my Viagra back. Alll song that really matter can be played on a mammoth carcass using a rock. This will cause the carcass to roll slightly, hence "rock n roll"

Still hungover.

B

Automobiles really hit my last nerve. Damn people who refuse to learn how to ride a horse. First it was those mamby pamby saddles they came up with for the stupid wimps, then it was the "horseless carriages". Lazy stupid kids.

Autotune is definitely a love it or hate for most people. However it's ultimately a stylistic choice means to an end analogue purists and digital divide. auto tune e.g. antares or melodyne are tools that were developed over time much in the same way pliers turned into a spanner, and a spanner into adjustable spanner and then a spanner with x ray pipe vision (with optional mp3 player) lol their designed to make a given job more productive, it's easy to say people who use auto tune have no mastery of their art they do just not the skills our forbearers had much in the same way a bricklayer of today is by no stretch of imagination a stone mason he doesn’t quarry it, because there are tools that do it for him. Yes the grass roots way of doing things heaven forbid being able to sing in tune. Isn’t necessarily a requirement these days but music by definition is a subjective statement of human emotions, you can’t put I hate statement on something that lets you express who a person is.
To say why you would pretend to have mad skills that you don’t is a bad way of putting it. Because of progress the skill set evolves and changes

what the hell is auto tune

auto tuna sandwich,those you put in the back seat when go to the mountains with your cute girlfriend

auto-tune is a song about automation and cars

otto-tune, a song sung in the Alps involving much yodeling and stein raising. It's what makes the hills alive with the sound of muzik.

wow, this thread is getting long!

Come on, people, let's make this the most commented-on blog in the history of Kompoz. No comment too inane or off-topic.

Hasn't anyone noticed?, The Nose has spoken again... show some respect!

National Day of Sweden (Sveriges nationaldag) is a national holiday observed in Sweden on June 6 every year. The day was made into a national day by Riksdagen, the Swedish parliament, in 1983. Previously it was commemorated as svenska flaggans dag, Swedish flag day.

The tradition of celebrating this date began 1916 at the Stockholm Olympic Stadium, in honour of the election of King Gustav Vasa in 1523, as this was considered the foundation of modern Sweden.

The number of electrons in a uranium atom is 92, 6 of them valence electrons. Uranium has the highest atomic weight of the naturally occurring elements. It is approximately 70% denser than lead, but not as dense as gold or tungsten. It is weakly radioactive and eventually decays to lead. It occurs naturally in low concentrations (a few parts per million) in soil, rock and water, and is commercially extracted from uranium-bearing minerals such as uraninite.

I wear size 9 shoes

my brother has a big head. i have ten toes. my website is myspace.com/ericwilliamsband. sorry promotion. stop hammer time.

current record for longest thread is, I believe, 645 here:
http://www.kompoz.com/compose-collaborate/view.story.blog?storyId=1031&p=Rudy_Sarzo_Contest_START_JUDGING#comment_list

we have a long way to go.

the best way to promote anything is to blame on it in the apropiate place

Oh mighty nose!

Auto Tune. Another step chasing that new sound.

I think we can beat 645 comments. I, for one, would like to take this opportunity to say that I like to play foosball, and I'm quite good.

I used to be a goalkeeper. You may call that game "soccer", we call it "football".

I will auto-tune future blog posts so that the comment counter starts at 645.

I'm developing a new product called outatune, it takes a singer like Julie Andrews and makes her sound like Ozzie Ozborne, great for 30's movie songs!

I hereby announce my falling off my chair. Laughing.

The wormies like my garden
they nestle in the roots
weaving tunnels in the soil
and leaving bits of food
the turnips like the wormies
they keep their systems strong
oh the taste of garbonzo beans
in a vinegar wine solution
and a nice little merlot
uke in hand
aint it grand
and I owe it all to autotune

And for those who prefer the meatless version, there is the Outatuna.

I am kinda old and I really liked that cher song with the auto-tune. Great melody. I didnt really know what it was until now. Sounded like a guitar "talk-box" using a keyboard instead... Pretty cool! I think Ozzy should re-track his "I am Iron Man" intro using one dialed to a really low key. Now that would be cool!

I AM IRON EARS

Bill... the effects "box" used in Cher's song " Believe" was the Digitech Talker. Originally, a Korg VC10 was used - but didn't have the clarity. The "trick" appears to have been done by running a second vocal track through the filter section of a Drawmer DS404, delaying it, then on through the Digitech Talker before mixing it with the original vocal. It apparently was a bit of a hit-and-miss getting there, but the single did rather well for all that effort.

If Jimmy cracked corn and nobody cared....why did somebody write a song about it?

Good point Ron.
Maybe the author liked corn a lot, you know one of thous all things corn guys. He probably visits the Corn Palace in Mitchel every year.

Auto tune: the worst reason to create a piece of software since the latest installment of Windows....
All you "s*** for a voice" wanna-be "artists" hiding behind software..,Computers have ruined what used to be art.
Now, any moron is a producer, and any karaoke idiot is a star.
Now as long as you keep writing about bling, cars, guns, and your homies, at least we don't have to worry about your lack of artistic vision.... that's one thing that's abundantly clear...

think it's a little harsh to say s*** voice wannabes yes music is a passion but for most but those who take it seriously enough to want to make a career from it have to make money. and to say lack of artistic vision is a bit extreme because i do vaugley remember someone saying that about the synthesiser (you push a button and it does it all for you) autotune still requires a certain amount of skill to be able to pull off the articulations (in the sense your talking about) using it as an instrument. it is no different to the synth revolution of the 80's

artistic vision is one persons diea of how things should sound to deny people of auto tune to aid in their own vision would be censorship which goes against everythign a musician is

computer has given freedom to ppl to make art, without needing of being a great skilled person at any subject....that could make jealous and angry some guys who had spent lots of time studying and working on it

The statement 'Computers have ruined what used to be art' is absurd on its face. Pop music was very rarely art. Art will always be rare. Sometimes it's going to be done on computers now, that's all.

There's something about that narrow-minded, borderline-racist comment that makes me want to boot up Auto-tune and program myself a song about bling, guns and all my homies on Kompoz.

I think "Computers/electronic instruments have changed what talents are necessary to make music" is more correct. What is considered "talent" is also different now. If drum machines existed in the 70's prog rock might not have existed. If they didn't exist in the 80's there would hardly BE any music from that decade.

Now...a Kresling tune about a gat? Yeah I'm ready to hear it!

Talent and musicianship has never changed, only todays "musicians" unwillingness to put in the time and effort it takes to become proficient at their instrument of choice....


Used to be "the BAND" had to record the song in it's entirety, with NO mistakes.... that's why most new bands SUCK now in a live venue, take Coldplay.... even with a click track in their ear, they still suck.


those who can't, shouldn't, and leave music making to people who can.... go back to karaoke and shut up.


borderline racist?


It's not my fault the biggest abusers of this technology are rappers (or whatever name you are giving it nowadays). Monotonous "beats" over sampled "everything else".... Crap.


Talk about narrow minded.... if you had listened to anything in the 80's other than the drum machined crap all of us hated, you might know how much you missed... real people with real instruments with real talent making real music.... Mozart sure as hell didn't need atotune.... tell that to John Williams.

Your right.Mozart was a purist. He denounced computers from the beginning.

He did however like his bling bling.

"if you had listened to anything in the 80's other than the drum machined crap all of us hated, you might know how much you missed"

1. Who said I didn't?
2. I liked the drum machine crap
3. Just because some used a drum machine doesn't instantly mean they didn't have talent. If in doubt I refer you to Mr. Thomas Dolby.

this guy also invented the famous noise reduction,no?:))...mmmmm those cassete tapes got their panties wet when you switched it on

I wonder. If an artist (who doesn't necessarily have to be a musician) creates something which is what he/she wants to express, I would say anything goes. If I like it or not is up to me, but I learned long long time ago that there cannot be any "right" and "wrong" in music/painting/poetry/sculpting ... etc.

There are many examples of artists that have embraced new technology and created great stuff with it. Mike's example of Mr Dolby is one.

I, personally, do not like to be "autotuned" ( a new English verb) and I am a traditionalist inasmuch as I prefer to have live performances over "machine" ones, but I believe in every musician's (or other creative person) right to create what he/she wants to hear using what he/she wants to use. If I don't like it, I use the so-called "off button". Works great. If millions of people buy it, they hear something that I don't and none of us are wrong.

My most important - in my opinion - point is that I absolutely do not like if someone believes they can "fix" someone else's performance. If you are fiddling with your own performance, at least you know what it is you want it to sound like.

That was a few cents.

Rock On

B

David: I believe you mean the famous NOSE reduction, which you seem to have used successfully on your profile pic? The camel has less authority than the Mighty Nose.

It's all just technological "evolution" whatever way you look at it. A "classic" musical instrument is as much a part of technology as a computer is today. Instruments all had to be fashioned and developed through time - and brought to us using the "tools" that transformed basic materials into those instruments or "devices". It's all very subjective in "art". One can look or listen to things in different ways. Some could look at the "lines" of a warplane and see that fashioned object as a thing of beauty - while others would see it as a horrific object of death. Music is for everyone. Some are purist snobs... while others are more open in their interpretations of genres. A classical [orchestral] musician told me that. I think he was right.

mmm that brings me a"joke"....it says: 1000000000 flies cant be wrong...shit is good lol

mm my previous comment is supposed to go just after bjorn's first

I just talked to the president of Antares. He claims that music is ruining Autotune. Can this be true?

good one, brother :o)

I have to listen to RadioDisney with my daughter on occasion and the use of Autotune on all of these Disney Stars is just sickening. My daughter said the she thinks the voice they sing in is cool, but after explaining to her what they were doing, she said "They really can't sing Daddy?" Then she said "They are a bunch of cheaters!!", straight from the mouths of babes.

If used in moderation I'm cool with it, I love my melodyne (another subject I know) and a few other tools I use to help my vocals, but once again in moderation.

Cheers from AZ and Happy Fathers Day to all the "Big Daddies" out there.

Larry

First of all, hats off to musicians who've mastered their instruments. I personally wish I'd mastered the pan flute. Didn't happen though. Practicing 4 hours per day on the pan flute would have been at the expense of something else I love.

So I'm a sub-par pan flute player. But I bring something to the pan flute that someone who spent all his time practicing can't. I spent four hours a day living and studying and now I bring all that to bear on the ol' bamboo. Might not hit every note, but I'm going to communicate more.

I have friends whose musicianship is impeccable. Spent all their time practicing, went to music school. What are their songs about? Whatever. Doesn't matter. Practically nothing. Musicianship is a lot like Auto-tune; unless it's put in service of something, it's just a smokescreen.

It's right to criticize people who make music to become famous, but attacking innocent tools sounds like sour grapes resulting from your frustration that you haven't become famous.

Let me expound on Kreslings comment about "borderline racism". I will go further to say it is the very definition of racism.
Rap is the product of a culture. That culture is a product of poverty. That poverty is a product of oppressiveness. To call the genre crap is common, shallow, ignorant oppression.
The Impoverished don't get guitars for their birthday. They don't go to piano lessons on tuesday afternoons after school. However, they do aspire to musicianship.
They have created a genre that expresses their culture using things that don't cost money. If you listen to it from a different prospective, it touches you. Yes, its often base level and raw, but there is a beauty in it that requires an ear with more depth than yours.

To say its crap is frankly absurd and appalling.

To Larry...that's what I mean about the use of this software

to the unnamed above: if by culture you mean the degradation of women, the love of possessions, and an insane amount of ego...
then I guess is isn't crap...
to bad real RnB didn't get it's due... now it just gets sampled. I'd have more respect if they did it "unplugged" .... wait, that would mean no autotune ... what a concept ... no where to hide ...

I will give them props though for being the biggest self promoters the world has ever seen ... selling a million ringtones to make a living off a "song" that lasted a week on the charts was a real kudo to the Fugees ... I'm totally impressed.

I have a great ear...
It hears that 99% of modern "pop music culture" has been turned into merchandise, and throw away fasion... and we buy in, lock, stock, and barrel ...

enough.

robet,im running the risk of not being understanding your comment 100% right,but imo theres no coherency and respect for your own point of wiew by saying you'd respect more if those women degradators,with hyperego ,adorating money, guns,gold chains,and drugs...do they parties unplugged,and that brings us to the main point of consideer whats the right way of doing art...theres shit everywhere,but not everything is shit...about your last sentence, i totally agree with you

If there was a "right" way to do art, it wouldn't be art, I think :)

It just struck me... I used to play in a Van Halen cover band in my shady past. This was before some great thinker came up with the much classier label "tribute band". The discussion points on sampling and DJs made me think about that too. Were we actually just ripping off someone else by playing their tunes and getting popular? Luckily, we didn't get paid, so at least we didn't steal the food off the table for Eddie et consortes :). But still, we got popular based on someone else's efforts. Makes you think.

If only Fran Dresser or whatever her name was had autotune attatched to a device that could have hung aroung her neck, her voice use to really anoy me.

@Matt.. I'll never question your pan flute technique, but..

"Practicing 4 hours per day on the pan flute would have been at the expense of something else I love."

I believe you mean "love more"

whenever you practice anything.. it's time you don't spend on something else you love.

"Might not hit every note, but I'm going to communicate more."

Yes you certainly will, and one of those things will be that you haven't practiced your pan flute very much. If practicing less meant you communicated more then I should try playing a bassoon.. which I have never practiced. This is a case where less isn't really more.

I too have friends whose musicianship is brilliant but who have trouble communicating but that doesn't mean practice and good musicianship is a smokescreen. It's just that they haven't learned to communicate with their skills. Some of us who love music never do.. but it's easy to criticize how others fail to perform up to our expectations.

@Robert....

"Used to be "the BAND" had to record the song in it's entirety, with NO mistakes.... that's why most new bands SUCK now in a live venue,"

Which bands played all the way through with "NO mistakes"? Of course there were mistakes.. and they did retakes till they got it close enough.. even live recordings of symphonies are flawed.. some simply have fewer flaws and those are the ones that become famous. Of course we all may differ on our opinion as too which recording is better but that's because music enjoyment is about personal taste, not perfect musicianship.

And I really like this part:

"those who can't, shouldn't, and leave music making to people who can...."


If you could make up a list of which musicians can and which can't it would help me avoid listening to all that crappy music out there.

now back to my vacation

I can't, based on this line of reasoning. Put me up in that column please :)

Robert,
The degradation of women is a problem. I don't accept it. but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I can name many Rap and Hip Hop artist who don't help perpetuate sexism.
I've seen an enormous amount of covert racism. I don't accept it. So often its originates from things like fear or jealousy or what have you. Understanding a culture (and I don't claim to) isn't as important as respecting one. When you dismiss it as "crap" you diminish yourself as a human and certainly as an artist.