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EdSilva / Edson Silva 5yr+8mo ago
Just want to bring up a topic that gets me a "tad" on the verge of exploding, and I think it applies to the new folks more so, than the old timers. Folks! When you are looking to add someone's talent/contribution to your project try to refrain from sending a volley of invites to multiple people for the same instrument. I don't audition to projects for a reason. Mostly because I have my own to deal with, so It is kind of a slap in the face to have someone send an invite, only to find out that he/she has sent 10 invites to other guitarists. That is both rude and inconsiderate of people's time. If someone wants me to do something in particular to their song and time allows, I more than gladly will do it. That means the project manager had a vision and knew who and and what he wanted added to his project. When I write a song I pretty much have a good idea of who I want doing what, so a couple of PMs is all it takes to get the right people onboard. But this random volley of invites has to stop, It is inconsiderate to have 10 guitarists invited so that the project manager can pick and chose whose tracks to use. If I wanted to audition to a collaboration I would do so on my own free will. I don't like the sneaky aspect of being reeled into an audition situation,,, I think the system should be set up so that a project manager could send only one invite per instrument, and then if the person invited declined it, then it'd free the project manager to invite someone else. Just think about it: If you are inviting someone is because hopefully you know enough about that persons capabilities and his/her talent is something you want in your project. To just randomly fire up 10 plus invites to different people is unacceptable...


     

14 people like this: SabreLane, artartart, LindsayAO, Bigwagdog, DocDaFunk, Mr_Sinister, AndrewB, liljoe6string, MarkAlanDooley, xvpusw, shivshivshiv, KimNobleMusic, offthewall, EdSilva

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sriracha   commented 5yr+8mo ago


it's not just new members that do this - people who have been around longer than I do this.

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xterrabill   commented 5yr+8mo ago


not me :))) I think I have only sent 3 invites in a year and 4 months. why? I have no idea.

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sriracha   commented 5yr+8mo ago


I guess I don't mind the "audition" part so much if the member makes me aware of it: that's part of this places culture. But I have checked a few people off my list when I get invited and then don't get any feedback and then get archived. That annoys me because without feedback, how do you know if you hit the same vision or not? You can't correct what you don't know needs to be changed. In the end, it comes down to effective communications and simple etiquette.

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xterrabill   commented 5yr+8mo ago


not commenting on an idea, that mistake I have made. changing my ways for a year now. did you see the little rascals post I put up, it made me think of you. :))

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sriracha   commented 5yr+8mo ago


lol...I need that hammer.

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KimNobleMusic   commented 5yr+8mo ago


+100!!! For the original post and comments ... Mending ways are awesome too because we all have things we can continually improve. :) :) Piling on, for newbies accepting invites, like me when I first moved to K_town... and I had no idea that anyone ever even did this.... then found out the hard way via multiple frustrating circumstances. My newbie advice is until we get into a rythmn here (and we will!!!) keep a cut and paste form letter back if you're interested in the project.... Especially if you're like me and don't have the skills or know-how to do things at will. :) :) something along the lines of: Thank you. Will audition but if someone else does before or after me, I will take a backseat to them unless other arrangements have been made. Or something to that effect. :) :)

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KimNobleMusic   commented 5yr+8mo ago


I typically do this only if interested in auditioning... Or idea-ing... Or whatever the kids are calling it these days. :)

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SabreLane   commented 5yr+8mo ago


The kids??? You're getting pretty salty these days Miss Recent K-1 Girl. LOL!

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AndrewB   commented 5yr+8mo ago


Bill you are right on all counts.. I agree 100 with you and Ed..communication is key. And if you sent 10 invites out like Ed said..your wasting at least 9 peoples time & focus that could be give to projects who want you talents.

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AndrewB   commented 5yr+8mo ago


And honestly how the hell can anyone listen to 10 drummer auditions and 1. Not have a headache. 2. Be objective. 3. Ask for more auditions? And only give feedback to the last one..weird. It has happened.

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shivshivshiv   commented 5yr+8mo ago


Great advice. If not mandated, there should be a place for "best practices"-- there are other things that need to go on there. I just counted. I have only sent 8 invites in 3 years. And I sent 3 in the last month just to encourage some new people to join in the fun. I think we should let people know when you invite them that they have it exclusive. Also a good practice (from Mauro) is to mention on your collab that you have invited someone.

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marshall2550   commented 5yr+8mo ago


There are ways of fixing this issue. It is just to bad management doesn't have any vision! Different people use this site in varying ways. That should be top on the list for the management team. It is truly sad that they don't realize this. They lose a lot of potential members by only being one directional.

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MakroBass   commented 5yr+8mo ago


How about a mandatory "Audition Declined" and you must put in comments as to why. The problem is that most musicians have a big head ( sorry but the sad truth) and think that whatever they do is the best..etiquette is nice and all...but musicians also need to know that just because you were "declined" doesn't mean you suck....just may not be what the user was wanting for that piece.

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MakroBass   commented 5yr+8mo ago


Or if you are like me here; and all I really do is work with my brother and am not really into doing things for others at this point...Would just be nice to have a "Not for Hire at this time" option so you wouldn't get auditions.

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sriracha   commented 5yr+8mo ago


You can turn off invites, which I've done recently so that I can get caught up.

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marcelosz   commented 5yr+8mo ago


Couldn't agree more! So true!

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AggroPhene   commented 5yr+8mo ago


I am sorry to say I lack the experience to provide relevant feedback on this topic, but I am interested in a solution that remedies your frustration while still allowing the smattering of invites you discuss. Maybe a "stat" for invitations sent. I am guilty of sending out multiple invites, though it was done one or two artists at a time with delays for response. I have even had accepted invites from members gone dormant. In too many cases, constraints on the invite process could make managing a project tedious, especially if you're not well acquainted with members that you know can get the job done, or want to involve new membership. I imagine refining the process could have positive change too, just not sure how to implement it.

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Hotjams   commented 5yr+8mo ago


Concur..........

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crazymadhouse   commented 5yr+8mo ago


I try to refrain from multiple invites... I tend now to stick to the same close circle of musicians on my collabs (you know who you are!) but in the days when I did send multiples, I'd send them over a series of days. Part of the problem I found was that often, people didn't respond to the invites either way. I think there could be some sort of K-etiquette that says if you havent accepted within x days, it should be implied that you dont intend joining. Trouble is, how do you police that sort of thing? What if the person you invited is away on holiday? I think there should be some sort of marker, or stat, that shows invites are pending on the project. Or, as someone mentioned, update the dashboard to say so Disclaimer: If I am guilty of this, I may or may not have been busy on that day and may or may not have forgotten to respond.

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RodZ   commented 5yr+8mo ago


I agree, except that I have sent invites, and waited a week, didn't hear back, so I sent another. Then got tracks from both musicians within minutes. And what I've found is occurring is the first guy reads my invite and works out time in his schedule to record his part, but he doesn't reply to confirm the invite. On my end, I assume he's busy or not interested but afraid to have to say that, so I invite another guy, who immediately accepts. So, I have players participating over the course of months, who never actually hit the "accept" button, therefore my invitation is still in an unknown status.

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baked   commented 5yr+8mo ago


When you post a "public" song on kompoz you are basically inviting the whole world to join your little song...So you invite billions of people every day Ed? So bitching about a handful of people is kinda silly. But that is just my point of view, I'm a "paying" "new" member!..you wanna insult us more?..by telling us what you think we should do???...

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sriracha   commented 5yr+8mo ago


There is a difference between many people auditioning on a public project and being asked to specifically contribute. I think the point is that when you as a player get an invite, you have an expectation that the proj owner wants your work, and has a slot set aside for that in the project. Everyone has real life challenges to the time they can spend here. so you may not have time to join a lot of projects, but when you are invited and you decide to accept you commit to putting in the time to produce a quality contribution. To then find out that you are in fact just auditioning makes the invite feel like a bait and switch: maybe you wouldn't have put the time in on the project without that invite and now it's pretty much wasted (or certainly is for most of the invitees). I think it's fine to invite more than one player (I personally do not do so, but that's my choice). I would also think that if someone did invite several people, that they should start a PM with all and make it clear that what you are really doing is reducing the number of possible contributors to a short list and will take what you think is the best from that pool of contributions. I just think that's good form and being thoughtful of other's time.

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AggroPhene   commented 5yr+8mo ago


Courtesy does seem to be achieved with a PM as you mention; though tedious I am going to try working this angle in the future. If nothing else it may help cross connect members that have a similar musical focus.

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AndrewB   commented 5yr+8mo ago


I don't think he's referring to collaborators, I think he is referring to people who send out multiple invites for the same part. If someone invited you to a song and ten others for the same instrument its a waste of 9 peoples time. Would it be better if you were chosen to play that part on your merit not just because you happen to play the instrument the project manager is looking for. This isn't just a new members thing its everyone that should practice this courtesy. And for the problem of not being around to accept an invite a vacation button like gmail has that sends an auto response would fix it and a time lapse on invites would be cool. I'm guilty of letting invites sit..so I know what songs I have to work on next..but always try to contact the inviter to let them know that.

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AndrewB   commented 5yr+8mo ago


What Bill said..we must have both been typing at the same time lol

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baked   commented 5yr+8mo ago


Until I hear an apology to all new paying members, you can all kiss my ass!..you wanna jump on some online post and criticize paying people and publicly shame them? What is wrong you...do you realize the same people that listen to and "like" your songs are reading this and feeling hurt! Damn! You all need a reality check!

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sriracha   commented 5yr+8mo ago


So...who is being publically called out and shamed? I think your hostility is unwarranted.

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baked   commented 5yr+8mo ago


That's why you fail..

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sriracha   commented 5yr+8mo ago


Well, I guess you told me. :)

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marshall2550   commented 5yr+8mo ago


To be honest, And I am probably nowhere near the norm here, I don't see the big fuss over this??? If you have been in a band before then you know that not everyone is going to like your thing. How about we all just grow a pair! Put an extra layer of skin on people! If a person wants to get multiple "Ideas" what is the big deal? They just want to get the best they can. This is about feeling inferior to someone and guess what? That is life, it happens everyday! Competition can be a good thing! I for one, love competition and you would probably get my "A" game that way! I know everyone is not like that and like to stay in their comfy zone, to each his own. I have submitted Ideas and then had others audition after me and the collab owner went with others. Guess what? I am not going to cry about it. Maybe they just don't like my style. No biggie, it's just life people. ......my rant.............

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sriracha   commented 5yr+8mo ago


It's all about the time you spend. If you are like some folks (not me, obviously...I live here it seems...) your time for doing stuff on kompoz is limited. As I said: maybe you would not have auditioned for the project except that when invited you decided to jump in because you were asked. You see the difference? Now you are putting your time in on a project that you would have focussed on something else. To then find out you were in a pool of invitees means you may have wasted your time. It's frustrating. It has nothing to do with man-ing up and growing a pair or any of that. It's about where do you allocate your time and why. I don't know why that's so hard for folks to get.

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SabreLane   commented 5yr+8mo ago


Hey Ed, I agree with everything you say except: "I think the system should be set up so that a project manager could send only one invite per instrument, and then if the person invited declined it, then it'd free the project manager to invite someone else." Think about this... How many folks might not press decline or respond at all... Yeah, I understand that we usually invite the folks who we think will give us the groove we're looking for and most of the time it's people we've worked with before and communicate with... But imagine you send an invite to a new singer / guitarist / triangle player because you heard them do something you really liked... Now according to what you want Kompoz to do, even after 6-months of no accept or decline from the person in question, you wouldn't be able to give an invite (except through PM - which most of us do) to anyone until you received a formal decline... Am I making sense here? (Been a long day, so let's not take my sense for granted at the moment.) :) We don't want it to become automatic, but I think it would be a great idea for Raf and crew to put out there on a sticky / tutorial etc, why it's rude to put out multiple invites for the same track... Some people just don't think about the ramifications and some just don't care, but at least we'd have a link to point to when someone is rude and we won't get our projects stalled due to an automatic process. :) Yeah, I understand your frustration. Nothing s*cks more than putting time into someone's project only to find that 5 other people did at the same time. Most of the folks out here understand that "most" of us want to avoid "stepping on anyone's toes"... Multiple invites cause that to happen. So let's just get the word out there so the noobs can see it. :) (I still feel like a noob.) :)

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shivshivshiv   commented 5yr+8mo ago


I like the "Number of invites sent" idea -- where it is disclosed how many invites have been sent. Then everyone knows whats happening. PS: Because I am here primarily to have fun, I am going to ignore hateful posts.

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KimNobleMusic   commented 5yr+8mo ago


Great, fantastic idea!! :) :) Also, I"m HORRIBLE at responding to invites!!! HORRIBLE!! (read: WRETCHED!!) :( :( (but of course the first one to soapbox about unresponsive people---soooooo... yep... I'm a keeper!!) :) :)

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RodZ   commented 5yr+8mo ago


One thing that might solve all of these hurt feelings is for the "invited list" to be publicly displayed on the project, in real time as it occurs, and when invitations go out, everyone who has already previously been invited receives an update message of the project informing them that someone else has also been invited. The question then becomes whether this mass notification system would cripple the servers, and whether the notifications would be sent with each invite, to each invitee, regardless of instrument, to prevent people from at one point inviting someone for "guitar" on monday morning, and "electric guitar" tuesday, thereby side-stepping the safe guards, if the messages were strictly instrument specific. If you had it set up that anyone and everyone already invited, would receive a laundry list of all instrumentalists invited to the project, each and every time someone new was added to the list, it would help everyone invited, know whom else was possibly going to be submitting tracks on their same instrument. Lastly, the other way we could do this would be that if the composer invites someone, who doesn't respond, and then cancels/rescinds the invite, the invited person receives a message informing them the invite was rescinded due to non-response, and that it is very likely the composer has already invited someone else, with a recommendation that they contact/PM the composer before doing any session work.

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JuanGardenias   commented 5yr+8mo ago


In all political correctness, "auditions are now ideas". No longer do you have to tell people in so many words (or actions or lack thereof) that they failed the auditions. And you no longer have to feel like you wasted time competing with others. Because "Hey!, everyone's got ideas right?

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sriracha   commented 5yr+8mo ago


lol....yeah - that was a bit too touchy feely for me. It's still an audition.

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JuanGardenias   commented 5yr+8mo ago


You keep auditions Bill. I'm going with "failed Ideas" from now on

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JuanGardenias   commented 5yr+8mo ago


From now it's going to be "thank god this wasn't an audition because you would have blown it big time if it was. Got any more ideas?"

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sriracha   commented 5yr+8mo ago


lol...I think I was told above this is why I fail - perhaps that was speaking to this?

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EdSilva   commented 5yr+8mo ago


The whole argument sounded like it was written by one of the folks that do the Crowd Review for us...

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JuanGardenias   commented 5yr+8mo ago


who knows

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EdSilva   commented 5yr+8mo ago


That is what I am talking about Billy... A little bit of common courtesy goes a long way... Not too long ago we worked on that project of mine with 5 guitarists in it, but I let everyone know upfront what their parts were so people would not see other guitarists dropping tracks and wondering what the hell was going on. There was a vision from the get go and everyone was in the know... I just got to a point that if I don;t know the person inviting me I just flat assume it is a wholesale invitation and go about my business....