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raf / Raf Fiol 15 days ago
When members close their Kompoz accounts, we always ask them why. The most common reason cited is that they start collaborations and no one contributes. We believe we have a solution (launching soon!). How would you address this?


     

32 people like this: Buttercup, RealAl, antonklinkt, WillaWay, paranoia, JustVera, dogbizkits, Wire-and-Wood, RGBass, aliceminguez, phraser, MikeJM, jubal, sreggeegg, Gemini, liljoe6string, gabrojazz, SpinDizzy, GELECTRIC, xd238, FingerFolkie, timelesspassion, Phoephus, rhythmicdevil, peterrand, RaymondVanMelzen, RickyD, Sterling, MoodyMo, offthewall, Shadow63, XperienceX

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XperienceX   commented 15 days ago


Well, my time is limited, and returned a few days ago after years innactive. Anyway, I'm now recording some amazing themes I found lost. Uploaded two yesterday and today, but no feedback from anyone. I work on projects and no one comments if they like it, or how should I improve my work. There's no much sense in community if people don't exchange ideas. More promotion needed, for tracks and collaborations.

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offthewall   commented 15 days ago


Well, sir. I believe your expectation of getting feedback and involvement after only a couple of days is over optimistic. In this game you need patience and resilience. Like yourself, most members here are part-time and often may only check in on a weekly basis.

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XperienceX   commented 15 days ago


Miss ;) Well, I've previously recorded tracks years ago, still have no comments. Makes me think if I did a bad or good job...

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offthewall   commented 15 days ago


Nice to hear from you, Master. A solution to this issue would be very welcome. Quite often newly started projects just disappear from view when a number of them come in together. Members sometimes seem loath to scroll through multiple pages. Most times that I am actively looking for contributions I like to start by checking out new members to see what they have to offer. Since the Activity Stream >New Members page has been out of date for 1yr 4mths this is not an easy task. Maybe reinstating that would be a positive place to start. Another possible method of attracting contributions could be, on the collaborations page, to reduce the size of the artwork image and give over some of that space to a list of Help Wanted requirements. At the moment you have to 'go into' a project to see this information. If it could be seen 'at a glance' it may help.

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Shadow63   commented 15 days ago


maybe have a newbee lounge? Hey is there anyway to get old accounts that have been closed to re-open them?

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SpinDizzy   commented 15 days ago


And here I thought the reason most skate right by my projects was because they are crap!

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TheOther   commented 15 days ago


Bring back 'Anything & Everything' as a talent needed. This was a way of letting people know 'I don't care what you add - just add something and I'm sure it will work' :)

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rhythmicdevil   commented 15 days ago


One of the hardest things for is finding people to work with. The searching and filtering mechanism needs to be rebuilt, in my opinion. For instance I want to find a drummer that plays metal, and is active (defined by tracks contributed recently). So in the Advanced Search section I select for criteria Talents = Drums Acoustic, Drums Electric AND Favorite Genres = Death Metal/Black Metal, Prog-Rock/Art Rock sorted by Date last track uploaded, number of tracks uploaded, and number of endorsements. The first result is EdSilvaw. He doesn't even have drums as a talent. The second result is mydevice who has not uploaded a track in 8 years. This is effectively useless and I believe its a huge barrier to finding people to work with. I also think its one of the biggest reasons that Kompoz can get so cliquey. Once you find people you hold on to them because finding new people is almost impossible. In experience the only reason I know the people I do is, they are either super active on the Community channel, or they know Sriracha. How does the is relate to your question? Well it comes at it from a different perspective. Right now a user's only option is that someone see their request for help on the community channel, which is super noisy. If we could effectively find people we could be more proactive about getting people to collaborate. In addition you could also setup a ratings system for activity and responsiveness based on tracks uploaded, response to messages, and so on.

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raf   commented 15 days ago


That's very good feedback. Definitely will look into this.

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rhythmicdevil   commented 15 days ago


\m/

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rhythmicdevil   commented 12 days ago


One last thing I wanted to add regarding searching and search results. The goal should be to accurate and useful results. Further, I want to be able to determine if the items in the results are useful to me without having to leave the results page. That means I need the individual items to contain some data that allows me to determine that; activity level, etc. But also, an audio sample would be super useful. Perhaps add something to our profiles that allows us to mark a song as the thing we think best represents our talent.

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xd238   commented 15 days ago


Good and well written comments here. Search feature for talents just doesn't work and hasn't since I joined (which was after K2 launch). It really should be sortable by last activity date. I might also add that a simple "last activity date" has been suggested to be added to the profile to capture the activity of people that are PM'ing or working in private - we need a date of simply the last time they logged in. Last activity date on projects can be misleading.

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rhythmicdevil   commented 15 days ago


I really like the idea of being able to see the status of a member. Right now I have to scroll down a bunch to see their activity. It'd be great to see that attribute on the search results as well.

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Nadir   commented 15 days ago


This!

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paranoia   commented 14 days ago


spot on

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marshall2550   commented 15 days ago


Anonymous collaborations. Nobody knows who started it or who submits an idea for it until the first idea is accepted...then boom, transfers to a normal collaboration. I also think, having something like a "scratch pad" collaboration page for each member instead of only song collaborations might help. If you think about it, in the real world, most songs ideas start off with just a simple riff, melody line, rhythm etc. Have a button to click, that transfers "Scratch Pad" to full collaboration. It would bring all tracks and contributing members automatically over to the full collab. I know you can technically do this right now but maybe this kind of feature would allow new members to not feel like they have to start a collab with a full song to start.

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rhythmicdevil   commented 15 days ago


Wouldn't a private collab cover that?

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Phoephus   commented 15 days ago


Most users do not close their account, they just become inactive. It might be good to check in with those folks for feedback as well. Here are my suggestions: Bring back the "new queue" - New projects used to be more prominently visible on this site. The collaborations tab should be new and trending projects and not whatever it is now. Projects with no files should not be included in the new queue. Bring back playlist type playback - When we had staff picks and member picks and the new queue you could click on the first song and the tracks would play one after the other. You could go paint, cook a chicken or whatever while listening down to all the latest and greatest on Kompoz. There is no way to do that now. Make the stream more filterable - particularly the uploads. Enable filtering by type of upload. What seps are in a project are the single biggest determining factor on whether I might be interested in working on it. Some mixers may only want to work on projects with drum seps some arrangers may only want to work on vocal seps. Artist search results should be based on files they uploaded, not talent listed - Typically you are not going to invite someone to a project if they have never posted a track with the talent you are looking for. Get rid of this community page - Or at least not allow the posting of tracks here. Projects are more and more devoid of comments because all the discussion is taking place on some community post which has long since scrolled out of sight so the next person visiting the project finds a ghost town of tracks with little to no verbal interaction. Also it is not uncommon for a new talent to be discovered by an established user who might not be as gifted. The established user might upload an idea and immediately post it to the community page under the guise of introducing this new talent to the community. The new idea will get an out-sized response relative to the quality of the additional work. The new user will be given the impression that since everyone is raving about this addition that this must be the best this site can offer and proceed to never upload anything ever again. Bring back playback start cue - no one should have to hear a sync tone ever again.(not a solution to your problem but it would be nice) Bring back the ability to post pictures, videos, etc in comments. This may seem like a stupid request but it was my personal experience that this made the site way more fun and engaging. It often led to some great stream of consciousness back and forth which in turn inspired new music projects. Some of the best stuff I ever participated in was a result of these type of conversations.

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Astronut   commented 15 days ago


I couldn't agree more with these fantastic points. We've spent almost a decade working on here on and off, working on our own private sites, and using various other collaboration sites as well. What you have said is VITAL and I hope it doesn't get looked over.

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StuNick56   commented 15 days ago


How about the site awarding social credits which can be used like currency around the site.So maybe they can be used for access to premium content or maybe a discount off premium rates.In order for this to work you would need to get a significant amount of credits for multiple collaborations. just like airmiles. The only problem might be that people just produce rubbish to get the points, so the collaborations need to be accpted by the originator to be vaild for points. Also the originaor could award a score for the quality of the collaboration. like uber.

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FingerFolkie   commented 15 days ago


In my experience, collaborations that die with no contributions have some common flaws - no bpm - no sync/tone - and volume levels and effects saturation that kills any desire to jump in.

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dogbizkits   commented 14 days ago


Exactly right. ... and incorrectly placed sync markers which don't line-up the tracks at all.

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FingerFolkie   commented 14 days ago


Yes! I got into a nightmare mess with a project owner who put sync/tones in his tracks at any point he felt like.

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rhythmicdevil   commented 15 days ago


Here is another idea. What about personal feeds of collabs that might be of interest based on talent needed and genre. The feed could be configurable include or exclude members.

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JEANRECOVERED   commented 15 days ago


I have closed several accounts, sorry for that. The last account I closed was for health reasons and not for the operation of the page. But I understand that users who pay their subscription have not only more privileges, but more collaborators. I am a free user, I understand that I have no right to request collaboration, that is why, I always try to replace the maximum number of tracks that could be recorded by real musicians and edit them with rendered tracks, as if they were real musicians. I understand that this page is for administrators, a business, but it would be a good idea: Congestive icons that show the mood. A more effective search system. A greater involvement of the administrators, to gather musicians, collaborators (even if they are free users), to promote the use of the page.

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Gemini   commented 15 days ago


There is the collaboration activity that takes place on the community page...relatively few members involved and space limited. And then there is the much larger project activity that takes place every day which you have to dig for in the activity stream. I believe we need something that bridges this gap. Maybe a dedicated new style projects page with help wanted and description (copied from project dashboard). Sorted either by date or recent activity or length of membership. With a comprehensive search facility.

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raf   commented 15 days ago


So many great ideas here. It will take me some time to process. An obvious common theme: Better user search and sorting based on activity (engagement).

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rhythmicdevil   commented 15 days ago


Awesome. Thanks Raf.

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ShannonB   commented 15 days ago


Cliques are ok in music I think. You gotta start with the few people you feel comfortable with, and if it works you kind of want to stay comfortable. Or maybe you want to reach out more as your confidence grows. I am learning to let people go if they are more damaging than helpful. And the only way to get people to help you is to help others. That's how your name starts getting thrown around and people start looking into your stuff. I know that's generic and nontechnical. :)

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liljoe6string   commented 15 days ago


Hello RAF> What RDevil hit on was exactly correct; though not to your point directly re: Search function> dude u know its been very weak & dsyfunctional. Searching for anything here is like throwing a stone in the desert trying to hit water. Phoephus hit on a few points that made Ktown 1 more interactive. Though i dont like the ideas regarding community page control. In fact it would be my advice to XperienceX to post his music there for feedback & interest. As to your question> ive thought for a long time that you could organize & utilize very active member volunteers to mentor new sign ups.. Step 1 screening: did they fill out both the DAW used and instrument played box. Step 2 This triggers a PM in rotation to a volunteers member. That member would then PM them starting a conversation and help guide them to projects, and/or help them get their first project going. Which could help them get past a few hurdles like sync use, finding projects and promotion. The volunteer could also use their talent or resource others to help get the noobie's first project up and rolling. That is the sugar. Followup> Kompoz should have an ongoing ad on every Cragislist "musicians wanted" page world wide> millions of players look there for someone to jam with; would be a kompoz flood gate on steroids(low cost).. The more in the more you keep.. And lastly as it has been a very long time since I've seen the Kompoz auto 'thanks for signing up email' I think you should post that here for review, and ask for suggestions. That first contact should be 100% exactly what they need to know if they want to get started right.

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Astronut   commented 14 days ago


The complication of "mentoring" is you become a voice of Kompoz, LLC. It's not in the best interest of the brand/company to allow just anyone to become said voice. For example, you like to use a lot of profanity and type in text speak. Some might not mind it, some may find it amusing, but from a business standpoint, it's not good at all. Mentoring is something that requires careful curating/screening where an employer feels confident that you will do the right things in their best interests. Helping others is a beautiful part of life, but Kompoz is a business AND a community. It's a business first, and this is what keeps it online and available. Reaching out to help new people is great, too, but in the wrong hands can be just as destructive as a pushy car salesman forcing you to try out the lemon on the lot. This is obviously a very diverse community with members from all over the world from various cultures. That alone should reveal how daunting a task being "ambassador" may be. I am not trying to discourage anyone from helping because that's how collaboration works...helping each other. I am pointing out that mentoring is a delicate thing. Think about your educational background and how vital the good teachers were and how potentially detrimental the bad ones were. It's a delicate process and not to be taken lightly.

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sreggeegg   commented 15 days ago


First of all: Please excuse my bad English...I will try to express myself comprehensibly. I am member since June 2017. In the last months I have noticed a clear deterioration concerning the cooperation of musicians on Kompoz. I think there are many reasons for this. Here is a typical course of a project: At first, you can't get anyone to join in. ( It's especially hard to get a singer...Question: Why did some good singers "leave" Kompoz ?) While one is busy bringing the project to a good end, participants of the project leave the Kompoz page and close their account. If you have finished the project anyway and want to publish it on Soundblend, it can happen that a single musician refuses to give his consent because he suddenly no longer agrees with the "distribution" of the rights to the composition. ( Just to remind you: The distribution of rights concerning the composition and the recording are mostly clear before !) If you manage to release the song on Soundblend despite all that, then it's like wearing the song "to the grave". Who the hell knows Soundblend ? Who would register there to be able to pay for songs by unknown hobby musicians ß ( Please don't get me wrong ! I think, on Kompoz there are the best musicians on the world wide internet !!!) But I think, without a connection of Soundblend to other sites ( Spotify or similar ???) the publishing makes no sense at all. I understand that the better musicians like to work together. For me (as a less good musician) this means that I pay my contributions but often don't find anyone who likes to get into my songs. I have very little idea how to make it possible that as many projects as possible can get support from other musicians... I'd like to point out, though: Other sites (like Bandlab or similar) are free of charge and without a limit regarding the amount of songs per year... I have to admit that Kompoz (for musicians of my low level) makes little sense at the moment. Why pay here when it is practically impossible to get female or male singers for months. I'm sorry if I told to much negative things But, working on Kompoz (for a less good musician like me) can be very frustrating.

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MikeJM   commented 15 days ago


So I don't have time to read all of the great suggestions here, so forgive me if I'm echoing someone else's comments lol... I see a lot of new members join here and not get a lot of attention of their project. I try to help with that from time to time (even if I'm not the type of talent they're seeking) but I'm definitely not here to do it all the time. I can imagine that you put a lot of work into your contribution, and it never gets heard, and that can be disheartening and you leave. When I was new here, it definitely took me a while to finally hit it, and get going. Part of that is perseverance, like I always echo, and whenever I see a new member I tell them that word. But on the other hand, I believe there are things we can do on our end to make sure new collaborators don't go unheard. My MAIN idea would to be: add some sort of an incentive to contributing to, or at least finding, a new member's track. It has been discussed before that Kompozers like to settle into their "cliques." Now, unlike some, I am not willing to give that a negative connotation - I think it's excellent that we find friends here that we enjoy collaborating with. But also we need to actively encourage Kompozers both to find and contribute to these new members projects. Maybe there could be a tab saying "first collaborations" that shows all collaborations if it is someone's first one? Maybe we can have some sort of rewards/recognition system for people who reach out to the most different people? AND maybe, like some have mentioned (this would be the community's part), we have some people willing to give their time as "mentors" to people who just joined, and then we can be matched with new members who have completed their profile. I have no idea whether those ideas are good or lame lol but I still like the idea of adding some sort of incentive for finding and collaborating/helping new members. Anyone have any other ideas? Anyways, thanks raf for the thought you are putting into this! :)

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raf   commented 15 days ago


I like the "first collaborations" page idea. Really good.

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MikeJM   commented 14 days ago


Glad I could be of help! Feel free to use it or not . . . just an idea. Hopefully the sum of this entire thread and more can make this an even better place for our newest members and people who fall through the cracks in terms of collaboration WITHOUT changing what makes this site awesome to begin with!

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dogbizkits   commented 14 days ago


Mentoring is something I've always been in favour of, Mike. Passing-on knowledge gained through years of expeience in whatever 'field' is *probably* the best way of giving something back to Kompoz. Many 'oldies' like myself have done exactly that over the years - and it's actually a real pleasure to help folks get over the obstacles holding them back.

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Astronut   commented 14 days ago


I prefer Kompoz, LLC to provide any "mentoring" via an extensive AMA, FAQ, instructional videos, and online tips that are updated frequently and readily available. There could be solid input from veterans of the site to help make sure it is not only quality information, but also functional with the perspective of those who use the site regularly.

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MikeJM   commented 14 days ago


Totally! I always like to give a few words of advice to new members when I see them, just because I know from my early experiences that this site can be a bit overwhelming at first and there is a learning curve, especially for more "amateur" people like me. Now, there are some people who join here that are well-versed in online music production, but I still feel words of encouragement and some advice can go a long way. Totally get what astronut is saying too though . . . perhaps this can just be a voluntary, non-official thing (the mentoring, that is), and a few of us can organize some who want to help new members get on track here. Liljoe had an idea where the management doesn't even have to get involved; in fact all we need is the regularly updated list of people who just joined to return, and then we can reach out. I would personally, as a lyricist who knows only that, be open to helping new lyricists who need a little guidance. It really is a question, though, of whether there are people who want to put in the extra work, and whether it should be endorsed by Kompoz.com or just be an unofficial activity. But first step in this, as liljoe mentioned a while back, is for the "just joined" on the activity feed to return.

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MikeJM   commented 14 days ago


I am of the opinion though, and take that with a grain of salt, that while the messages from raf and what not when you first join are good features, people might still really appreciate messages from their new musical contemporaries. But hey, that's just me. :-)

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JenCarie   commented 15 days ago


Hey Raf! Look forward to seeing what is to come! Great comments so far. -For existing artist that have been here awhile, here are some suggestions. When you click on someone's homepage, have categories of what they did on particular songs. So many people here do several things. And If they don't play an instrument, they may have composed a midi track for things. For instance. GeorgeSC plays, rhythm guitar, lead guitar, bass, sings, sometimes mixes... etc. I could click on his homepage and "browse" his work or little samples of his work. Then I could say, "hey, he's a good bass player and I like that thing he did. I'll invite him to my song!" :D AND you could use this same model to generally "Browse" for bassist on the site and see sample works of different artist. That way you can see how active they are and if they would be a good fit for your song. -For newbies like me that know NOTHING about equipment, DAW's and how to get the best sound, it would be GREAT if Kompoz did instructional vids (not just the lengthy and jargon-filled instruction you have now). I'm talking baby steps. What is an interface? How can you find one for cheap? How do you plug it in. How do DAW's work. etc. The written instructions didn't help me that much. We don't know what that means half the time anyway haha. And many new artist quit (singers, I've seen) b/c no-one is making it user friendly enough to navigate and know what to do. We have incredible teachers on this site. Maybe utilize them as well?? :P Add a "WILLING TO EDIT" button that let's people know the originators of either musical works or written works, are willing to have their music or lyrics, cut, rearranged, added on to etc. Many times I've said no to a song b/c I needed the arrangement to be rearranged to match lyrics or vice versa. But found some artist are not willing to do that. No problem. But it can be frustrating and would be awesome to know up front. It is way easier to join a song with participants willing to hone the song together as a team. I see this being more of an issue for vocalist, lyricist, and melodist than musicians... idk... *** A PERSONAL FAVOR!!! lol... Make the "Happening Now" sidebar that lists all of our activity, an optional thing. Maybe it is and I don't know how to do it but sometimes I want you all to know my activity and sometimes I don't. :D I'm strange, I know but I bet I'm not the only one and you'd see an increase in participation if we could set our activity to private as we work through things or communicate... ;) Thanks for listening and THANK YOU for making the best site in the WORLD for us to Kompoz!!!

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rhythmicdevil   commented 15 days ago


"When you click on someone's homepage, have categories of what they did on particular songs" thats a great idea!

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Nadir   commented 15 days ago


Yes, another similar option would be that you had to add the talent you collaborated with and when you did it, when you share a track in your showcase.

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rhythmicdevil   commented 15 days ago


Thats generally what I do, but it requires a manual step, which means it wont be consistent throughout the site.

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raf   commented 15 days ago


WILLING TO EDIT --> Nice!

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dogbizkits   commented 14 days ago


Hi, Jen. You wrote: ..... "let's people know the originators of either musical works or written works, are willing to have their music or lyrics, cut, rearranged, added on to etc. Many times I've said no to a song b/c I needed the arrangement to be rearranged to match lyrics or vice versa. But found some artist are not willing to do that". This is where producers come in. Producers can make a huge difference to a song when they work with the songwriter and performers. It's not for everyone though - and that's ok.

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Astronut   commented 14 days ago


If a person can avoid being too precious with their song and embrace the spirit of collaboration, they may find themselves surprised. The worst-case-scenario might be that they don't like it, but given the chance, they may have an outcome where they love the results.

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raf   commented 13 days ago


Very true

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carlmoneyhoney   commented 14 days ago


Willing to edit is huge idea!

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SidiousSounds   commented 15 days ago


my two cents... have the website assign people to projects automagically maybe by genre. IF a few days pass and one of the members hasnt "checked in" that person gets kicked out of the project, and the next person in line gets put it... The INCENTIVE for adding your part of the project.... This is the part that keeps people contributing.... INCENTIVE: if you add a layer to each project your put in, Kompoz will pay for your month of Kompoz that month. Reward the people who are active on here, and its a win win...

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marshall2550   commented 15 days ago


I think, when asking why a member closes their account you should ask the following question: Is this because you didn't get a vocalist or drummer to contribute on your song? I bet the answer on this would be very very highly, YES, No vocalist or drummer! I have said this before in the past and will again now. Give some kind of really nice incentive to attract Vocalist and Drummers to this site and this site will be humming! If I owned this site, the very first thing I would do is give free memberships to all Vocalist and Drummers. I bet I would make much more money off the site then the current owners. This isn't any different than in the real world. There is always a shortage of good vocalist and drummers.

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BrotherRat   commented 15 days ago


The biggest thing that I think would help is... A Guide To Collaboration At Kompoz. "The Kompoz Ambassador Project" Joey do you remember it?

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liljoe6string   commented 14 days ago


yes//a mentor system would really help getting people comfortable fast..

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FingerFolkie   commented 14 days ago


Yes. Let me mentor the sync/tone class! Please - please - pleeeeeeease ... OK Joey, you can do it.

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liljoe6string   commented 11 days ago


XT already has a vid made..

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bagpipe   commented 14 days ago


I hate to come across as 'that guy' but maybe the question you should be asking is "Where has the Kompoz management team been for this long"? Many of the suggestions/requests below have been asked for mulitple times in the past and the response has been "". Personally I decided a while ago to withhold my paid subscription to Kompoz as the management response to any request for service (or even just answering questions!) has been non-existent. Hopefully this thread will be a positive attempt to improve on past performance.

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dogbizkits   commented 14 days ago


It hasn't been the first time I've thought of just bailing-out. Being a member of Kompoz for almost 13 years, I've always found problems with 'searches'. I'm no expert by any means when it comes to databases, but defining what search criteria is to be used for a given objective, and what 'fields' are to be used, and how data is manipulated in order to produce a satisfactory 'result' is in dire need of fixing here. Unsatisfactory searches cause a lot of frustration, and that ultimately determines how long someone is prepared to put up with being stuck in a negative-outcome loop. Implementing whizzy-bang 'features' really should come second to fixing this search facility, in my humble opinion. This may seem a bit selfish, but I believe what I'm about to suggest will be of benefit to all who use the 'search' facility. Wouldn't it be useful to have a centralized section for those who mix / master / produce so that they can go there to see which project owners want that kind of assistance? This isn't really a 'feature' as such, but intended as a way improve search functionality. Of course, it would mean putting certain search fields in the database and putting the approriate 'button' on the project, but that would be easy as wiring an XLR cable, would it not? This is something which would improve searches right away because it would kill-off a lot of superfluous data being spat out to those serching for something to mix / master / produce. Using this same principle, there could be centralized sections for drummers, guitarists, vocalists, bass players, etc, etc, etc. It's just a question of designing a good front-end so that folks can navigate to what the want with greater ease. If we're to be honest, the current navigation is like spaghetti and needs simplification rather than unnecessary complication. Something which has always bugged me is projects with not enough tracks to make a mix from. The current search facility spits out so many zero-track projects, single track projects, and projects with not enough tracks - and all apparently looking for someone to mix those 'projects', so it makes the current search facility rather useless for those wishing to mix. Each project could have an internalised way (for the database) to look at a project and break it up into the various instruments in which that project is comprised, and then count the number of tracks for each instrument, look at the filespec [WAV, AIFF, MP3, etc, etc] and then deliver a list of the projects which fit the search criteria. Chances are, that would be a pretty good way of determining whether or not something is 'mixable' - particularly if the filespec criteria was also teweeked to specify WAV or AIFF. Again, this kind od search methodology could be used in so many other ways than mixing. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- EDIT: An example of what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is this project: https://www.kompoz.com/music/collaboration/804105 There's supposed to be 67 files there, but there's actually zero files and yet it's asking for's mixing / mastering /producing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ As it stands, its clear from other comments too that the current site design makes navigating around it difficult. Having to drill down a number of layers only to end up again in another maze is very frustrating. Simplification is the key. So coming back to the initial statement about it not being the first time I've thought of 'bailing out'; I haven't left Kompoz because I've 'met' an incredible bunch of people here and have made many friends so I still tend to hang around. Although I do more mixes on other sites where all of the high resolution raw tracks are available, I really would like to do more on Kompoz - but, for the folks that do what I do, the tracks are either so hard to find or are of an inferior format which would pruduce an inferior mix. Of course, it could be that there's not a general requirement for the kind of mixing that guys/girls like me want to do - and that seems to be what the search 'feature' is telling me. I hope this information has been useful in some way. :o)

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BrotherRat   commented 14 days ago


> "Where has the Kompoz management team been for this long"? Yes .. deathly silence from kompoz management is a bummer. There is not "Help Desk".

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liljoe6string   commented 11 days ago


I got your help right here!! lololollhahahehehe

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Basil   commented 14 days ago


"When members close their Kompoz accounts, we always ask them why. The most common reason cited is that they start collaborations and no one contributes. We believe we have a solution (launching soon!). How would you address this?" I would ask them if they reached out to anyone for help I would ask them if they offered or helped on someone else's project because in reality this is all about people helping people ....music just happens to be the focus. I would inform them that online music collaborations can take time and to be patient I would inform them that online music collaboration is not for everyone and maybe take a break and come back in a month or two, because new musicians sign up everyday and you may find some people you click with in the future. From a site point of view: The search function is very bad as noted. Maybe have a last logged in date on profiles so you can tell if someone is active or not. The persons activity stream is helpful, but some people don't post much and it can look like they haven't logged in for a long time, but they actually visit a few times a week. I also think people need to be educated one the do's and don't of home recording and online music collaboration educate so it makes things easier to attract other more seasoned members.

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RickyD   commented 14 days ago


My thought: If a start has no files uploaded within 24 hours, it gets deleted. It had nothing so nothing is lost. The person can start again with a file.

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carlmoneyhoney   commented 14 days ago


ABSOLUTELY!!! or no files/no collab from the start

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dogbizkits   commented 14 days ago


Isn't 24 hours a bit early to delete a project if no tracks are uploaded? Doing that could mean that you'd miss-out the right musician who would have done a killer track, but because he/she just happend to be out of town for a few days, the project missed that opportunity. Of course, its up to the project owner to pull a project down whenever he/she wishes. I'd maybe give it a week before pulling the plug. :o)

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raf   commented 13 days ago


I think RickyD means that if the *project owner* has not uploaded any files (e.g., a reference track, lyrics as a document, etc). In other words, an empty project with nothing for musicians to work from.

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marshall2550   commented 14 days ago


You know, an actual youtube video showing how the site works would probably be like BIG TIME helpful to newbies. Not a cartoon vid but one with real screen shots and a real voice (just not mine, lol). Not just one vid but a library of vids on different topics about the site and general recording tips that a person would need to know to get going on the site. There are a lot of youtubers out there that could possibly help out and an added benefit may be sending a boat load of more talent here. You could even ask active members for help with vids and for their service offer free memberships etc. For ex: could someone make a vid showing how to do this "topic" in pro tools, etc?

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liljoe6string   commented 14 days ago


1000% correct.. but it would have to be sent with their Welcome to Kompoz email.. thats a genius Idea..// all of us could help script the perfect> welcome mat... best idea ive seen.. SEE my note above asking RAF what is currently going out as a welcome to kompoz contact email.. Getting that much improved & including a very well done vid.. is gold.. great idea!!!!

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marshall2550   commented 14 days ago


Yeah, like have at the very least a how to use Kompoz vid with the most simple topics vid. Make it required to watch before you can even start. Like there is a code at the end of the vid. Once you reach the end of vid...input code and boom...now you can start collaborating.

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liljoe6string   commented 14 days ago


lololol soo awesome..

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liljoe6string   commented 14 days ago


but they might just skip to the end.. /: but you could give a quiz? lolol Really whts best is > make the vid great enough entertaining enuff.. with a aces script/screen shots.. whtever.. that they wont want to turn it off.. that should work

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Nadir   commented 14 days ago


I could do a few of those ... maybe, haha.

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raf   commented 13 days ago


We sorta have that. Many of the topics listed in the Help Center (link below) have videos. https://www.kompoz.com/music/helpcenter Maybe we need to expand on them.

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RickyD   commented 14 days ago


BTW Raf, thank you for this site! Without Kompoz, I would have never found the tools I needed to play music. I play and sing poorly but, with the help that I have found here, I have the nerve to play and sing in public and it has been the realization of a dream. I will always be indebted to you for that.

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liljoe6string   commented 14 days ago


+1 x1000

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Nadir   commented 14 days ago


I would suggest: Ask to new users to upload a track showing their skills, it could be anything, an old track, a video, a cover, anything. Sometimes I doubt if I should take the time for inviting people who has never uploaded anything, since I can't know their style. Recomend to new users to collaborate first and stay busy some time while they wait for help in theirs own projects. I've uploaded arrangementes for a couple of projects of new users after a few weeks, and they never saw my tracks because they leaved after a few days (not closing their accounts). Maybe a few reminders of pending dnotifications via e-mail after a user hasn't login in for a while could help. Delete a talent needed from the dashboard of a project if an idea for that talent has been already accepted. It's a waste of time if you look for a project to collaborate with. Create a better section to show the finished projects, along with a better user search metod. Sorry if I had a typo, I hope I explained my ideas clearly. :)

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nemonty   commented 14 days ago


Offer a "Musicians for Hire" page, there are plenty of pro and semipro players and engineers that have been here for years and I'm sure they wouldn't mind making a bit of money to cover the cost of Kompoz fee's and other misc expenses....just like the real world. So if a member has an idea for a song and no one will contribute, problem solved! Call it "Kompoz Studio Pro's" or something catchy,......of course Kompoz would have to get a cut :).

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sreggeegg   commented 14 days ago


Never !!!

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BrotherRat   commented 14 days ago


>Offer a "Musicians for Hire" page, Seems like a good idea, to me. :)

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sreggeegg   commented 13 days ago


If that happens, then it will be even more difficult for us hobby musicians to find a singer!!! This is 100% in contradiction to what Kompoz is to me: A site where hobby musicians just for fun make music together !!! I think I'd cancel my subscription then. Besides: What's next... pay for a drummer ? pay for a lyricer... ? If I had to pay for a singer, I would lose the joy of every song ! I would have the feeling to pay for a hooker ! Also: I already pay for this site...every year ! If this suggestion is implemented, then I can only recommend every real hobby musician to switch to BANDLAB!!! There everything is free ! There is no limit there concerning the songs per year ! There you can get a free online DAW ! + Many interesting additions. I'll never pay extra just to have fun ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

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raf   commented 13 days ago


nemonty - You've hit on an important idea. And it is pretty close to something we're working on. Having said that, we totally recognize that it would fundamentally change Kompoz. So, we would be very careful. It's important to us to preserve the Kompoz collaboration model. How? First, we would not implement it as a musicians-for-hire page. Instead, we would allow collaboration owners to post a prize/bounty/payout for specific talents needed. Having trouble finding a vocalist? Add a cash reward for the best upload. Also, we would not do it directly on Kompoz. Instead, we'd launch a separate site, specifically designed for songwriters who want to crowdsource for-hire session musicians. A payout could provide a strong incentive for musicians to contribute to a song.

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nemonty   commented 13 days ago


I'm sure you have thought more about this more than I have, it does seem to me to be a logical step to offer alternatives and possibly address your initial question. Choice is a good thing, I would think that Kompoz would be a good test market, and it doesn't mean that anything needs to change for members that are happy with their collaborations and circle of contributors, just another way of going about creating a fast track, if you will. So good luck with whatever you come up with!

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marshall2550   commented 13 days ago


Finally!!!!!!! You want the best? You gotta pay for it! No offense toward anybody but there are many musicians that are good but think they are much better and need to get paid. I know may cover musicians who are great but no pay? No can do attitudes.

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PortlandKeyboards   commented 9 days ago


What would be the connection between this new-site and Kompoz? (It sounds like you want to create a procollabs.com model.)

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WillaWay   commented 9 days ago


:)

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Astronut   commented 14 days ago


This is long, but please read it as there are points made. Attention and retention requires engagement. We log in and the first things on the dashboard we see are: Occasionally an email notification, My Collaborations, Unread Messages, Latest Notifications, and Joined Collaborations. Above that, a row of tiny buttons, too small to really care about. Can't even remember what they are right now. Above that, links to My Studio, Collaborations, Community, Groups. I don't mind seeing if I have any messages or notifications on project activity. That's practical and helpful information. Most of the time I smash the community button and always regret it. While it may have been designed as an engagement feature, it's riddled with YouTube videos I don't care about, the occasional drama screed, people featuring projects they have worked on, and people asking for help. It's a rare thing to scroll to the bottom, never mind clicking the button for the next page. If anything, it's demotivating. While most of us don't mind being asked for help, what the majority are probably looking for is something that inspires them. Sure, I love YouTube videos, but I have no interest in being a captive audience to what's the equivalent of your home movies or listening to a DJ I never hired. It's common to hear that quality vocalists and drummers are valuable assets. It's true as they are at a premium, everywhere, not just on Kompoz. People ask for vocals and/or drums on what I guess to be the majority of projects. What's it like from the perspective of a drummer? You get invitations, sure, but I already want an excuse to drum/produce. I'm going to listen to your projects to see if I am interested, right? First impressions are lasting, so put your best foot forward. There are two ways I find a project to work on. Collaborations/Just Started - or - Someone I have already worked with posts something I am interested in working on. Please note: I DON"T USE THE SEARCH. It hasn't been of use since the day I joined back in 2011. Re: Finding a project - If it's someone I have already worked with successfully, I listen to those first. Then, I ask myself: Is it a good fit for me, are all of the files I need available, and do I have time? If those needs are met, I jump on it immediately as I have SMALL WINDOWS OF TIME available in which to work. That means my time is valuable and I need to streamline the process of selection. If I am scanning through the Just Started section, the first impression is the ARTWORK. No art? probably pass unless I look down and see a genre I like. If so, I check to see who the project owner is.before I even press play. If I am already familiar with your work and have no interest, I pass. If the project has quality artwork, the genre is interesting, AND you aren't someone I pass on, I press play. How many times have I pressed play and no files have even been uploaded? The answer should be ZERO, but that's not the answer. Let's say I press play and I hear an interesting track. That is exciting! Next step is to inspect the project before downloading anything. Is the member still active, or did they already leave after starting a new project? Next, I inspect the project owner profile. Endorsements carry no weight whatsoever. A quick look at your talents, favorite genres, and influences carry weight as there may be a personal connection to be made. Next, I check out your activity stream. Like many other experienced collaborators, I've had my share of dealing with problematic users/stalkers (i.e. Dagny), so I check to see if the project owner has made any comments or posts that show they are high maintenance or violent/crazy...or a Trump voter. If I don't find anything, I check the project that initially interested me and look in the files section. Only a full mix available? PASS. Drumless mix? Better, but if the only file available is a drumless mix and it's lacking clarity for me to lock in my drum parts, PASS. If you have all of your stems/tracks available for download, GO! For me, it helps immensely to have the ability to change levels on tracks to feature what I am trying to lock onto. Most of the time it might be bass guitar or whatever the primary/foundation rhythm may be. I don't care if it has a sync tone. That is my "litmus test" prior to collaborating with others on here. If I am wearing a producer hat, the same goes for essentially all of the points, primarily having access to all tracks. In my opinion, the most valuable assets in creating songs together here are: quality search (gave up on that), quality ideas (appear almost daily, if you catch them before they disappear into the void), accessibility (users and files), speed in which both can be interacted with, ease of use of interface (meaning minimal obstructions/distractions), quality collaborators (there are plenty to be found, if they haven't already closed their account), willingness to work together, and a catalyst. What's a catalyst? Anyone can have ideas. Anyone can play. Anyone can experiment and "jam." It takes a catalyst to pull it all together and push it to completion. People don't join this site to create partially completed projects. They join in hopes of seeing a song come to fruition. Out of the hundreds of thousands of projects on here, how many are completed? I would wager it's less than 20%. Why is that? The same reason many people join a collaboration site - they need help to complete their ideas. It seems that there are possibly a few types of users here. 1. Musician/songwriter/composer needs help completing songs. 2. Musician/songwriter/composer/producer/engineer needs help completing songs and wants to help others complete their songs as well. 3. Trolls I would also wager that the majority who join fall under the first category. If they become active, they may eventually fall under the second category. If they join and things go terribly wrong, they may fall under the third category. On a personal note, I joined to help others and use it as an excuse to develop my skills and keep active as a musician after retiring from the road. Back then, loading up the Kompoz page dropped you onto a screen that had the following: A descriptive video about Kompoz, a list of Staff Picks where you could hear quality works and who helped make them, a list of recently finished projects where you could hear active and completed projects and who made them, as well as large buttons to tutorials, a listing of ALL PROJECTS, a listing of FINISHED PROJECTS, podcasts, videos, and community, with a LARGE search button at the top. Man, where do I sign up for that? I heard a cool song and found some really talented players listed on the project! Simple. Direct. New users join, then they expect others to help them complete their project. That's the status quo, and that's not necessarily bad, depending upon what their expectations are. For most, they won't see a single action taken on their song. Why? Here are some possible reasons why. 1. No artwork to entice a collaborator. 2. No files. Seriously? Shouldn't even be allowed. 3. Great song, but user already closed account. Huh? 4. Great song, missing appropriate files for future collaborators to work with. A full mix alone isn't necessarily helpful to fellow musicians trying to build a part into your song. 5. Too needy. The creative brief reads like someone begging for free session musicians, has too many hurdles (i.e. read charts verbatim and leave out any personal interpretation). 6. User posts/comments contain hateful diatribes, etc. 7. Song is great, yet mix is terrible (demotivating), or stems are terrible quality (also demotivating). 8. Artwork or Title is inappropriate (i.e. something racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.) 9. Song is actually an unoriginal work or karaoke rip (i.e. ShiningStar). 10. Project owner is unavailable or inactive. 11. Song is genuinely so bad it's not worth the effort. This is sad, because every idea has a spark, but in this case, it's so dim it's not worth the effort. How to address the problem? Make new users aware of what successful collaborations are made of. Files are available, users are active, you can take notes, all ideas are allowed, push for quality, push for completion, positive attitudes are infectious, understand the TOS, understand copyright and agree all across the board, set any limitations or boundaries ahead of time, establish and note any expectations ahead of time (we work for free around here), provide BPM/Key/charts if needed, understand that different people work differently (speed, style, attitude, skill levels), contribute to projects of others to share your talents which inspires others and may bring others to help you along the way. Understand that things go wrong, yet you don't have to burn bridges and delete your account. Teach them to find like-minded people by making profiles more important. Bring back top, curated, successful projects so that new people will see great music and learn who is involved. Delete the community feed and let all comments/posts land in projects or groups. When the focus is on projects, people spend time there instead of posting YouTube videos of songs we've already heard or don't want to hear. Find incentives for catalysts or those that contribute the most - encourage them to continue to do so and inspire others. Find incentives for NEW USERS to do the same. Perhaps a new user gets credits for creating new/private projects for contributing to successful/completed projects. Find a way to reward completed projects that doesn't have anything to do with SoundBlend. Despite the problems we have had in the past, I want to see this site succeed. Why? Providing a home for wayward musicians/songwriters/producers/composers to create is a great thing and you deserve some sort of monetary gain for doing so. Also, if the site succeeds, more people are drawn here where connections are made, music is made, friendships are made, and the world is a better place for it. Missed Opportunity: Bill Kompoz, not only as a collaboration site, but as a songwriting community. Bring in experts for paid workshops via streaming video (i.e. great songwriters/producers/composers), build a database of information to help others that is actively curated, edited, and readily available in a non-obstructed way. While "songwriting" doesn't sound glamorous, there is a market to be found. Side Note - Perhaps this site is a hobby for you as owner, yet I would think an expensive hobby at that. With that in mind, many note how frustrating it is having little to no presence of staff on hand. Many of us have offered various skills to help build, develop, and make this site flourish. From computer security experts to professional session players to web developers to graphic designers. While you probably have your own in-house or go-to people on hand, are they invested in this community or just someone occasionally on the payroll? Just to put my money where my mouth is, I've renewed my Plus account today in good faith that you take action in support of a community you created that is counting on you. No pressure or anything. From one catalyst to another. Thanks for reading.

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Basil   commented 14 days ago


@ Astronut Very well said!

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FingerFolkie   commented 14 days ago


Number 11 .... Ha ha. You've looking at my projects haven't you.

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raf   commented 13 days ago


Astronut - I am thinking a lot about what you've written. By the way, THANK YOU for taking the time to document your thoughts so clearly. You obviously put a lot of time into it, and I really appreciate that. My primary take-away (let me know if I'm off) is that: A user can attract musicians to his/her collaboration if he/she puts the time into crafting a quality brief, with quality audio, and staying engaged. Also, the Kompoz site does not do a good job of helping other musicians find those well-structured/managed collaborations. Better educational tools (perhaps videos, perhaps mentoring) will help with the first part. Updates to search and overall navigation will help with the second. But the hard part is that, quite honestly, not all songs are good. At lest not to everyone. Music appreciation is subjective and personal. As you said, you look for songs in you genre and that make a good first-impression. What if my song is (important to me) but not good enough for you, and I really want a quality drummer (like you)? How does a song owner incentivize top-tier musicians?

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Astronut   commented 13 days ago


"What if my song is (important to me) but not good enough for you, and I really want a quality drummer (like you)? How does a song owner incentivize top-tier musicians?" For this particular example, if a user makes it easy for me by having all of their files in place, BPM/key, notes on what they are looking for (expectations), and asks kindly, they are already 50% of the way there. I've worked on quite a few projects here outside of my own favorite interests. The aforementioned needs were either met or any of the following items played a part. The project was made by someone I like working with. The project owner is very talented (talent attracts talent). The song is great. I'm not a fan of most country, but a good song is a good song, regardless of genre/origin. The owner asked for my help (politely, without being pushy). Back in my years as a session musician, I made $15 per hour, and most of my work consisted of providing relatively simple, in the pocket, drum parts that fit the arrangement. While I loved the studio I worked for and the people that worked there, most of the material was very similar. The most enjoyable sessions were things that were unexpected or not your standard fare. Money isn't always an incentive, especially if the "client" is high maintenance (i.e. never happy) or lacks civility. The biggest factor for me, outside of all of the things I have mentioned, is simply TIME. Time is our most valuable commodity, right? That's why I use the litmus test I have described. Make it easy for me! I may only have 15-30 minutes, but I can sure as hell create a drum arrangement and record it in that time, provided the song isn't also that long. It's true I generally seek out projects closer to my own interests, projects that might be rough but contain something special about them, projects created by friends, or something completely outside of my own interests just to test myself. But, the occasional invitation is sent and I go through my usual steps. If they make it easy, keep it courteous, and it won't take too long, I might just jump in. I hope that answers the question.

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raf   commented 13 days ago


Thank you.

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raf   commented 14 days ago


Wow! Awesome to see so much engagement and ideas. I'm adding this short note to say that I'm reading and absorbing, and will reply more thoughtfully later this weekend. I'll probably group ideas into categories. Some of your ideas speak to the initial question ("how to address problem of no one contributing to my project"), but other ideas are more broad. Great stuff.

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marshall2550   commented 14 days ago


I frequent a music related online forum and they just started this new thing. They have always had ads on it but now offer, for a small annual fee, you won't see them. Brilliant idea! I know you guys tried this before but I would consider it again. Having more $$$$ available to make the site the best it can be should be more important. The customer isn't always right. You have to be able to keep the lights on.

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Basil   commented 14 days ago


Maybe add a function as to: 1. How available you are 2. How much time you currently have to take on a project 3. How serious you are 4. Your level of understanding home recording

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MikeJM   commented 14 days ago


So I just finished typing this long response to smg179, but as it turns out he has blocked me for whatever reason. I'll just post this as my own comment, as to not waste all that typing and also share this post with everyone else, and then I'll just leave him alone, as it appears he has some sort of issue with me that I don't know about... whatever. My response: "I respect your opinion, and it's definitely valid. :) I would say, however, that while people are not dumb, Kompoz does have a bit of learning curve, and can be a bit overwhelming. There's obviously people that just come and go as you mention, but there's other people that struggle to get started or don't get attention to their project. And a lot of those projects are really good, but just get lost. True, some REALLY amazing tracks get attention pretty much always, but but there are plenty of really good tracks that don't follow that rule. Part of this is perseverance on the collaborator's part, but another part of that is something we can help I believe. And yeah, no rules or regulations, but when I say incentives I personally don't believe they are crazy (though I respect your right to disagree - and I'm not assuming that comment was specifically to me either) but I believe that if we make it a bit easier/promoted for us "regulars" to reach out to newer members, everyone wins! And it's not "forcing" people to collaborate with new members either, just giving a little nudge. So in summary of my response: yeah this site is great, but I do think that things can be made better without taking away from what's already amazing! But again, just like yours, this is just an opinion . . . take it how you will. :) Respect!"

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XperienceX   commented 14 days ago


After some browsing through the site, other thing that's very confusing is that in the groups there are tons of requests for collaborations. The vocals group, announced as a place to exchange ideas on singing and lyrics, there are more requests for collaborations than ideas exchanged. Request should be limited to one space on the site, and not in every group. It's distracting. As to the question of why people leave Kompoz, browsing through the site is confusing, the searches usually gives back collabs that are already taken/recorded. Last time I quit Kompoz I recorded some themes, wrote the lyrics and as I've said before, even the author of the track would even comment if he liked it or not, and I've noticed even other users would comment. As how I choose the collabs, it doesn't matter to me the music style, but if the mix is good, and if the music itself has a good structure - verse, refrain, bridge - and if it's not repetitive. Because there are some good ideas but have no development, they are boring and repetitive. And other thing that makes me to step away from a theme is when there is no space to all instruments, vocals included. If you have a great track but there's a guitar making solos all through the track, please don't ask for someone to sing over it. Because I don't sing over solos (which are great for a song, to let all the instruments breathe and shine). Singing over a solo instrument though all the theme equals too many noise, instruments shod not compete in a song but create harmony. There, that's why I pass some collabs.

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smg179   commented 14 days ago


here..hold my beer..

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sreggeegg   commented 13 days ago


nemonty commented 22 hours ago Offer a "Musicians for Hire" page, there are plenty of pro and semipro players and engineers that have been here for years and I'm sure they wouldn't mind making a bit of money to cover the cost of Kompoz fee's and other misc expenses....just like the real world. So if a member has an idea for a song and no one will contribute, problem solved! Call it "Kompoz Studio Pro's" or something catchy,......of course Kompoz would have to get a cut :). sreggeegg commented 22 hours ago Never !!! BrotherRat commented 15 hours ago >Offer a "Musicians for Hire" page, Seems like a good idea, to me. :) sreggeegg commented seconds ago If that happens, then it will be even more difficult for us hobby musicians to find a singer!!! This is 100% in contradiction to what Kompoz is to me: A site where hobby musicians just for fun make music together !!! I think I'd cancel my subscription then. Besides: What's next... pay for a drummer ? pay for a lyricer... ? If I had to pay for a singer, I would lose the joy of every song ! I would have the feeling to pay for a hooker ! Also: I already pay for this site...every year ! If this suggestion is implemented, then I can only recommend every real hobby musician to switch to BANDLAB!!! There everything is free ! There is no limit there concerning the songs per year ! There you can get a free online DAW ! + Many interesting additions. I'll never pay extra just to have fun ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

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WillaWay   commented 13 days ago


There should be "Last Login" info on profiles. As far as getting Komposers to collaborate on more projects maybe a rewards system of some sort could be implented.

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dogbizkits   commented 13 days ago


By looking at a menbers profile, you can look at their most recent project activities - and also view their most recent comments. No need for a 'last login' indicator.

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rhythmicdevil   commented 13 days ago


Yeah but that information is not in search results.

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dogbizkits   commented 13 days ago


Yes, indeed. The 'search' facility needs some serious fixing.

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sriracha   commented 13 days ago


There was a proposal to show last login and current logged in status and members freaked - like it was big brother tracking them. Every forum in the world has this as an _option_ which you opt in for. It could be useful. I opt to check the activity - it gives you somewhat of an idea when the member was last on, and actually clicked something...but it's not great.

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marshall2550   commented 13 days ago


Exactly! And, how about an actual real forum platform like you see all over the web.

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xterrabill   commented 13 days ago


i have tried to help this problem by taking a few new members under my wing and explaining to them how kompoz/online music collaboration works, its a time consuming problem to teach them enough to get them going. syncs, seps, levels, mixes for drums/vox/auditions, ect....hours of typing explanations, they need to know the basics. I direct them to the current help video's and they are not enough. possible solutions? 1-more videos 2-mentoring (i like to call it "the spirit of kompoz" to help others as i was helped) 3-better search (most complained about thing) complaints about finding empty projects/very old projects btw i have only once or twice received those free one month coupons to give out, i could have used them a couple times in the last couple years. thanks for asking us, hope some of this helps, always good to see ya on.

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liljoe6string   commented 13 days ago


good stuff XT I do think 1 video link sent with the welcome email could make a huge dif. Kompoz seems daunting at first, the right vid could really ease that feeling in getting people up and running. Granted a lot of folks who register have zero interest in creating music.. But those who could.. are left to hunt around Kompoz for info. One problem is we need more actv memebers and theres not enough to grow that population.

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TheOther   commented 13 days ago


'Granted a lot of folks who register have zero interest in creating music.. But those who could.. are left to hunt around Kompoz for info. One problem is we need more actv memebers and theres not enough to grow that population.' You got it.

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BrotherRat   commented 12 days ago


I agree, Bill .. learning how to use kompoz as a tool .. is very frustrating for most newbies. I have mentored a few newbies and it takes about 4 months to get the hang of using kompoz and for other members to get to know a newbie. Joey mentioned this also.

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Basil   commented 13 days ago


There are some really great ideas that have been brought up, but no matter how many bells and whistles you plug in to the site it all comes down to people wanting to help people with their project. Quit honestly you should have some kind member profile that is more like a dating site so members could be matched up with other members based on their profile. Sounds crazy I know! LOL.

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raf   commented 13 days ago


That's not crazy. My business partner Gerry had suggested something similar.

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SimonW   commented 13 days ago


A few suggestions from me. 1. Make it easier for lyric writers to identify collabs that are looking specifically for lyrics. 2. In the 'Just Started' section, allow the new collabs for be easily filtered by Genre. If a person wants to work on rock and metal songs, for example, then they probably want to get to those songs quickly 3. Have a 'Create a band' section, where people can advertise that they're interested in creating some sort of virtual band to work on multiple songs rather than one-offs 4. Allow people to mark up to x number of their collabs that get special promotional status. i.e. these would then get increased visibility, perhaps in the 'Recommended' section. 5. Offer some sort of incentive for people who collaborate on a newbie's 1st song.

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liljoe6string   commented 13 days ago


#1 is an excellent idea> and could be setup to display on created projects. For example on the Just started page,, it would be great if there was an Icon that would appear(or written but for space) and a vcoo look.. it would be great if an icon would appear for help wanted... like a snare drum,, gtr, (A PEN), a mic.. sax, keyboard.. this would let people looking at the page see right there.. their looking for these items.. #2 has been addressed alot the improved search functions. #5 hits on my idea> to utilized seasoned experiences members to mentor noobies til the get their feet wet.. and yea theres could be an insentive component..

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PortlandKeyboards   commented 9 days ago


I like your #3... It should be a option in profile settings to make yourself available as a contributor in a virtual band. It would be interesting to have virtual bands as an option on Kompoz... You could sign-up for long or short-duration bands; Other band members would be suggested, or you could invite, (or buy) their contributions as needed. The finished "album" would be featured on SoundBlend. What ever happened to SoundBlend? (It's a great concept for a music site that just hasn't produced any meaningful sales! - Maybe because it dosen't have a connection or presence on the music sites that sell music.)

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XperienceX   commented 13 days ago


Also, some kind of online status - I've recorded some ideas, but now stoped for a few days because writing lyrics and work on the vocal lines takes time. People might think, ok, she's gone, but NOPE, I'm working on listening the projects, writing the lyrics, and then another day or two to record and uploading the idea. Maybe a new button next to "Like" to let the owner of the project know that there's someone somewhere that liked the song and is now working and will upload an idea in a few days?! (I have to say I have about 15 projects on my list that would like to work on, but it takes time!)

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marshall2550   commented 13 days ago


I think the Two Big Elephants in the room are, to be an active member of Kompoz you have to meet these requirements: 1) An Original musician 2) A Recording engineer You don't have to be great at either but that would help very much! Now, most musicians I know and I am sure others here would say the same, do not meet both of these requirements. I always wonder how many potential new members try this site out and realize two things: 1) Oh, no covers? 2) Oh, I have to be able to use a DAW?

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FingerFolkie   commented 12 days ago


Exactly! Not very many musicians can handle self-recording well. It's as much of a skill as good musicianship. I've had to bow out, or not even start, some promising projects that had track synchronization, or track effect saturation problems. If a suggestion is met with outrage, I bow out.

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RealAl   commented 12 days ago


Hello raf: I read most of the comments to now, and the theme I hear is "feedback." And not the Hendrix kind. In my experiences, musicians want to know what others feel and think of their creations. We rate Uber and Lyft drivers, and they rate us as passengers. We get feedback. I don't think collecting a lot of likes, or have another endorsement complete fulfills that desire. I want those musicians who are either pros or were, and, maybe, are currently working in the business to give some evaluation, especially when a piece is marked "finished" and put out on Soundblend. Sure, maybe that's too late for some of the pieces, but know it awaits would raise expectations for this site. Something else that I hear from these comments, is that there should be some understanding of what the fundamentals of music are. It's not to say you have to understand theory, or be a savant performer. But, hey, a click track helps me, and an accurate BPM and Key to get on the same page makes it more interesting for me to want to participate. Lastly, the idea of a collaboration seems to sometimes be confused with someone idea for a production. What I mean is, if you have a riff, a melody, some lyrics, whatever, then it seems you take what you get, get and give it some feedback, and acknowledgment of the effort. If you have a total idea of what you want, and you come here to get your DEMO or Release freely prepared, you should have to state you are auditioning, and there will be studio-like compensation for your efforts. Thanks for reading...

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RottGold   commented 12 days ago


Lots of good comments - search has been mentioned, and I agree. Had these two thoughts as well that I haven't seen mentioned. 1. When members close their accounts could there be a way to still send an email to them via Kompoz. Maybe a fellow member who is a friend could talk them back to the site. Also I have had collaborators that closed their account before uploading a sep and I would like send an email asking if they could get that to me. 2. One of the biggest hurdles to overcome here is communication. Songs are very interactive and real time feedback would be invaluable. Any thought on online chat and audio/vid calls. How helpful would it be to try out a part and have the song owner listen in and give direct feedback. It would save so much time in emails and comments that take days and then get misunderstood anyway. This is a collaboration site and online chat, voice and cam are major collaboration tools. Give users the option to allow those sort of interactions. At work if we didn't have group chat and group voice/vid calls there is no way we could support workers in different locations, what we do here is similar.

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carlmoneyhoney   commented 11 days ago


As regards 2. I agree that emails can be a snake pit of misunderstanding. Needless fights over miscommunications. Even when you go to great lengths, sometimes written words don't convey exactly what you mean

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RealAl   commented 12 days ago


When I lived and performed in California, there were, every month, gathering that would go 3-4 hours. An A & R Rep, or a label Exec, or sometimes a Song Writer pro would go through material that was submitted prior to the event. They would give feedback, as could the audience members. Usually, the material was required to be at least demo quality, but most of the material submitted to SoundBlend would satisfy that. And one piece or song per participant, and maybe 20-25 would get the feedback. Then next month, another session. Could that be done, with Kompoz heads lining it up?

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WillaWay   commented 12 days ago


Sounds good, I am always in search of feedback on anything I upload, be it my own project or a collab on another.

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Buttercup   commented 12 days ago


I'm a bit late to leave a comment. raf I think it's great that you care to ask people why they left. It's important to know why - especially if it's because of a troll. I can understand why the most common reason is due to lack of contributions. I can also imagine that some people leave because they feel unappreciated. It's tricky to find the right balance. I've just read through all of the comments. So many good ideas! All in all (thanks to you and it's members) this is a great collaboration site and it works amazingly well considering how many different nationalities it has.

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liljoe6string   commented 12 days ago


+!

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BrotherRat   commented 12 days ago


The Queen has returned :)

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liljoe6string   commented 12 days ago


does this indicate her thrown has been completed??

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BrokenBString   commented 12 days ago


Raf, have you done any data analysis on leavers? Length and type of membership, type of musician, contributions made, collaborations started, likes, follows....etc If not, would it be feasible or useful to do so? We're all just guessing what the problem is without that data.

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BrotherRat   commented 11 days ago


That data, plus reading at least the persons last public comments .. might be enlightening.

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RodZ   commented 11 days ago


I think the vulnerability of online collaboration verses in-person collaboration, is the time factor investment. What I mean is, if I decide to contribute tracks to a project, I will work on them as long as it takes, submit them, and then possibly be told "that's not what I'm looking for" or, in fact, receive no comments or thank you in return for my submittal. Whereas, if I was in the same room with the project owner, I could play a riff, and say "how about this?" and they could say "no, that's not what I'm looking for". This would take 30 seconds, instead of several evenings of pouring my heart into something worth submitting, only to have it rejected outright. To that end, is there any value to having a live chat - voice or video component built into the site, OR, allow us to post our Skype or whatever, so we could talk about things? Secondly, I think the BMP thing is a big one. In order for users to collaborate remotely, across multiple DAW platforms, and integrate MIDI sequencing and DAW Drums, we got to play to a grid. I understand, sometimes, you record an idea on your phone, while playing drums on your kitchen counter. Don't post that to KOMPOZ. Decide on a tempo, and track your idea or vocals to a metronome in your DAW, and submit that to KOMPOZ. It is so important, in fact, that we should require it before a project is posted. I have wasted soooooooooo much time, trying to quantize someone's free expressive vocal idea, to make it adhere to an average tempo. It isn't right for a project manager to place that burden on other people, who are contributing to their project. The burden needs to be on the project owner. Our recourse is to not contribute, which leads to people closing their accounts. They may not know why no one contributes. BMP and use of a metronome for ideas that are posted, might be a factor.

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BrotherRat   commented 11 days ago


>I will work on them as long as it takes, submit them, and then possibly be told > "that's not what I'm looking for" or, in fact, receive no comments or thank you > in return for my submittal. Rod, please be aware that in what I write below I often write "you" but it does not mean you personally - it means anybody and everybody :)) It is generally understood by the long time members .. that there is such a thing as 'kompoz etiquette' which is wise to follow. Some of the kompoz etiquette' most often in use is below. One of the guidelines for this 'etiquette' is to always acknowledge any audition submission even if not accepted .. say something positive like, "This sounds good, but I have a different direction in mind. Thank you for your interest and effort. Maybe we can collab on something else in the future." as this is at least an acknowledgement of the good intentions and the time the person took to create the submission. Who knows? maybe the next time that same person submits something to another of your projects .. it might be REALLY great stuff!! So keep the door open. Dead silence is a put-off. Another point of etiquette is do not ask for seps unless you intend to use that persons tracks. It sometimes happens that a project manager will ask for seps and in the end not use what the person submitted .. in the final featured mix. This can totally tick off the person which was told to submit seps and may have worked even extra hours to polish his idea .. only to find out all his hours of work were for nothing. Asking for seps is considered a promise that that a person's track(s) WILL be used in the final mix. In the past some really BAD feelings have resulted when seps are asked for, further polished and then uploaded, just to find out they were never use in the final mix. Anytime a mix is Featured .. it is a pledge that everyone whose tracks are in the Featured mix - is now an officially accepted collaborator. The ONLY time this is not true is when the Featured mix is a DEMO mix that contains temporary tracks (instrument sounds which are usually midi) that will be replaced by live players. When you start a project .. FEATURE a demo .. this can be just one or two instruments of maybe a vocal .. this lets people know what direction you are going in and allows them to download the essential demo so that can use it to play their instrument (or sing) to. Another way to do it is to Feature your demo mix (perhaps a lot of it is midi or samples) but also upload "less" mixes .. a bassless mix, a drumless mix, etc .. this give players a ready mix to add their instrument to in order to give the project manager a real good idea how their bass/drums/solo/vocal will sound in their tune. Of course there are other unwritten 'rules' of kompoz etiquette .. that we long time member have found to prevent confusion or bad feelings .. and thing easy for would-be collaborators .. but I won't list them here. This *is* the kind of stuff that if newbies knew .. it might end frustration, encourage and be inviting to collaborators.

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BrotherRat   commented 11 days ago


>Secondly, I think the BMP thing is a big one. Agreed. For mixing and editing too .. this can be very important. If the BPM is not designated the mixer will generally us 120bpm .. if synch tones are missing in any track .. this is now a nightmare to visually and by ear try to get track alignment.

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sreggeegg   commented 11 days ago


CRAZY IDEA... ;) I have to agree with marshall2550 (Michael) ! Many musicians (also outside Kompoz) are not able to record anything at all or use a DAW. I know my crazy idea would be hard to implement, but... How would it be, if RAF would ask a producer of a DAW, whether he would like to make a kind of "Basic DAW" available to the (new) users of KOMPOZ. (for free ;) Then every newcomer could start with a reasonable DAW and the producers of DAW could win new customers for their full version. I'm thinking of this DAW: Mixcraft A very visual DAW, very easy to use and with really great potential ! Just a crazy idea ;)

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dogbizkits   commented 11 days ago


Without a doubt, written communication can be very easily misinterpreted: There's no visual cues, no vocal inflections, and, for what we do here, written communication can slow things down if the wording ambigious - particularly where technical terminology is concerned. There's also the time taken to write replies, and to wait for answers to come back - all adding an element of frustration. It shouldn't be that way. If there was a way in a project page to make it visible which participants would be prepared to do a voice chat (at least), then arrangements could be made for a live 'meet-up' to discuss the 'direction' of a project and to ask/answer any questions relevant to moving the project forward. This kind of *facility* could also be intoduced Kompoz-wide for volunteer 'mentors' to help answer questions on various topics - as long as the 'class' size wasn't too big. A timetable and 'slot booking' system could be implemented to bring this all together??. There could be 'Q & A' sessions on everything from how to properly interface hardware with one's chosen DAW and record to it optimally, to what is the best way to build an iso-box to record ones guitar amp, or how to record vocals properly. The list is pretty wide-ranging. Once the 'needs' of the members are determined, this kind of facility would add another dimension to Kompoz and help members feel more 'part of' the community. For my own part, I've done this a few times and it not only gives a chance to meet people and get to know them better, but it fulfils its principle objective of passing on knowledge which can make projects run a whole lot smoother. Of course, it's easier to just point people to other parts of the web where there are very good videos - but that isn't quite the same as having a more direct interface with the Kompoz 'community'.

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marshall2550   commented 11 days ago


Yes! I almost posted that same idea above. I have always thought that something like that would be very cool. You join Kompoz and you get a free copy of "XXXX" DAW. Let that DAW developer then get free advertisement on this site. I am a developer of a Guitar cab Impulse response library and I would do something similar if asked nicely :) https://zombiecabs.com/ If you check out my site, I am plagued by one of the same issues. No videos! I have tried but I just sound way too midwestern hilbilly when talking :) Anybody reading this and is good at making vids and knows about IRs, contact me!

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RealAl   commented 11 days ago


Anyone wanting a free DAW can download AUDACITY. It's open source, and available FREE for Microsoft or Apple OS. The manual is also available online, and there are many add-ons to further enhance the environment. There is still the requirement for equipment. You need a decent mic for vocals or acoustic instruments. And when you are a drummer, one input with one mic will not DEMO much of anything. Underlying much said here, is you have to want to generate music, and make somewhat of a commitment to your equipment set-up, and knowledge base to appreciate the resources already available here; resources that include a lot of talented musicians and artists who are willing to contribute and collaborate. Give them the feedback, and they will stay and encourage others to join. Here's a link for free DAW's for starting out: https://reverb.com/news/the-best-free-recording-software-three-economic-daws-to-get-started

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sreggeegg   commented 10 days ago


I have to comment again on the suggestion made here, that there should be a kind of second place where musicians can be bought. Am I the only one here who has a very bad feeling about this? Question: Why should I pay the membership to Kompoz if I have to buy musicians ? Or to put it another way...does that mean, if I have enough money, then I get enough musicians to take part in my songs - if I don't have enough money, then that's my bad luck ? ( And this in times where other sites for music collaborations provide a free membership, add a free online DAW and give no limit on the songs per year. ?) I fear that the few remaining singers on Kompoz will only sing for money in the future. Is that really what you want ??? Is that the idea of this page ??? For me it seems like the beginning of the end of the basic idea of Kompoz. Kompoz means a lot to me, namely the possibility to create great music together with other people and to overcome differences in level and skills. With the idea of buying musicians in the future, this thought seems to become obsolete. Maybe I am completely wrong with my opinion... I ask the question again anyway (and would be happy about feedback...) : Am I the only one with these negative fears about buying musicians with whom I would like to make music just for the fun of it ???

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dogbizkits   commented 10 days ago


Hi, Frank. I think follow where you're coming from and it's both sad and concerning that you feel this way after a such a short period of membership in this community. Perhaps some of the ideas being 'fielded' in this discussion will come to fruition and bring about an easier way of connecting people with specific skill-sets to those who need them - without having to pay for the musician one needs. You do raise a very valid point though, Frank. If this is how Kompoz is being perceived, then something would need to be done to remedy that perception. In all my years as a Kompoz member, I can honestly say there's a huge amount of people that don't think for one second about payment and they put in many hours of free contibutions because they love playing music with others. It's this same spirit which has been the common binding of the Kompoz community since its inception and it still holds true today. The main issue seems to be that 'connecting' members with specific requirements may not be working as well as it could be because it certainly seems to have caused frustration and confusion.

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sreggeegg   commented 10 days ago


I agree: There are many nice musicians here who would never ask for payment ! Therefore I love Kompoz ! Thanks for your Feedback !

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marshall2550   commented 10 days ago


You are probably not the only one thinking that. Raf, said it would be like a sister site. I don't in any way see the problem with that. This idea has been floated around in the past and got knocked down by people with like minded concerns. It is a shame really. The fear of nobody joining their collaborations is ridiculous. Your fears should not put a damper on other musicians needs. Any musician seeking to get paid is going to have to prove their selves first. This could actually really benefit a newbie on this site, IMHO.

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raf   commented 10 days ago


Yes, that is the general concept: A sister site. 1- Keep Kompoz as-is, with a focus on peer-to-peer collaboration. 2- Launch a new site to help pro-am songwriters who are willing to pay (an amount they choose) to source "seps" and who want to own the rights to the music. Your Kompoz login will work across both sites.

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liljoe6string   commented 10 days ago


???

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marshall2550   commented 10 days ago


They will be able to pay for mixing and master as well, right?

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raf   commented 10 days ago


Absolutely.

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TheOther   commented 10 days ago


Makes sense to me. Like it or not you can say there are 2 groups of people here: those that have professional goals and those that don't. Might solve a ton of collaboration problems.

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ShannonB   commented 10 days ago


Don't we already have a sister site where people can go to get paid? Or at least a daughter site. :) Yeah, I check in there sometimes, too. They do good work, but the money runs out pretty quick. :( Everything ends up being about promotion. Get your song sounding the best it possibly can, then get it on every platform possible, time allowing. Songs should come here to get created; this should not be their final resting place. I haven't done it in a long time, but I really need to take some of my collabs here to an open mike night or something. It used to be that I didn't have the confidence to sing to a track because my timing issues were so bad. They're still not great, but being here has really helped. I sing to so many different things, there's no way I can really get stuck. That's what I love.

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carlmoneyhoney   commented 10 days ago


Frank, I know what you're saying and have to admit it is worrying. Money being introduced is like introducing a little cancer. How fast and how far will it go? Right on for bringing it up!!! Newbies who now can get help from professional quality musicians will more likely now not get that help!! Wouldn't all the good players or almost all move over to the paid site? Seems to cut the heart out of what Kompoz is supposed to be. I'm all for making money and splitting it up if you end up creating something great on Kompoz. Question. Do pros now have somewhere they can go if they want to pursue profit? I have no problem if they want to earn some money from their skill. I would too if I could. But is Kompoz that place??

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BrokenBString   commented 10 days ago


I'd be surprised if there are (m)any pros on this site trying to make money. I remember shortly after I joined I asked what the mechanism was for actually receiving the payments. I got laughed off the court. It's also worth remembering that playing for fun and playing for money are two completely different things. Whoever pays you to play can say "don't do it like this, do it like that" and you have no option as you now effectively an employee, not a musician. If people are going to get paid for providing seps to non-pros, I'd like to see some proposed T&Cs for that contract.

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RickyD   commented 10 days ago


For what it's worth, I do not like the paid performance idea and I will never pay for someone to play on one of my songs. I never paid people to race against me at the track, we did it because that is what we love to do.

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sreggeegg   commented 10 days ago


Yep, thumbs up ;)

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RealAl   commented 10 days ago


It seems that comments and people are splitting into "Only in it for the money" camp, and "Love of the art." This is a false dichotomy. It merely shows me a lack of understanding what goes into making MUSIC and what the real world of the music business is all about. Why you joined Kompoz may determine what camp you align with, but anytime spent contributing here should quickly make you aware of how gray those opinions are. Easiest example: someone starts a collaboration with a 5 minute chordal performance, gets all sorts of contributions, and when all is finished, the sheet say 100% of the compositional rights go to the originator, with a split sheet for performance. And why people think this is fair, is beyond me, but we still sign-off. Probably because we believe it's really not going anywhere, so we enjoyed the experience. How many people here know of Clyde Stubblefield? Should he be paid for his work? In the "old days" only melody and lyrics for a song could be copyrighted. Today, there are samples, mentors, producers, engineers, and many others that are entitled to recognition, whether it be renumeration or ownership, for their contributions. If you are really here just for the musical experience, then there should be a selection that marks the collaboration as "Public Domain" so anyone can use and enjoy that work. Yet, I bet your contribution level drops off significantly if that's how it's designated. I don't believe that Kompoz is a commercial site for musicians to sell their services. But I do believe, that if you are dictating performance and compensation terms, there should be better means to do that. Separate sites? I am not sure, but it should be discussed without the bias of a "sell-out" or "I'll leave" mentality.

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Astronut   commented 10 days ago


I don't know you, but I like you. Well said, Allen.

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liljoe6string   commented 10 days ago


Clyde Stubblefield just ckd him out.. sub beat master.. OH and he basically died from a lack of health insurance.. Price paid $80,000 of his medical bills.. but i bet after Prince died no money in America you die.. time for medicar for all.. and no longer tolerate GREED care in the USA .. Bernie time!

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RealAl   commented 10 days ago


Prince paid for healthcare bills of the most sampled drummer ever... "Health care : is it a right or a privilege ?" Separate discussion. We are talking about performance compensation and recognition. How much health care could he have had, had he been paid some of the money everyone else made from his works?

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WillaWay   commented 10 days ago


My opinion on this post is that why learning what makes a member leave can be beneficial, what is more important is what makes a member stay. The answer to the latter is obvious at first, it's a place where artists you can get lost in their passion, at least for me that's true. After spending some time on the site however the answer goes beyond that. It becomes clear that the real success that the site has demonstrated thus far should be contributed to the dedicated members who obligate themselves not only to their own love for music but also extend that passion to others.Wether it be mentoring, constructive critisism, willingness to lend a helping hand, a pleasant comment here or there, or in a multitude of other ways which makes the community and site as a whole a much better place to "hang ones hat." So in my opinion, and maybe mine alone, I think instead of focusing on what makes members leave, focus should be directed to those who have stayed and impacted others to remain here with them.

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WillaWay   commented 10 days ago


I elaborate this point only because I've spent some time reading on the site, and from what I've gathered the site has been pretty much ran by a small group of members who strive for the sites success, and I completely get why. Kompoz has so much potential in my eyes and the most crucial data to gather would be from those who have had a had in keeping the site going. Anyway my apologies for the rambling:)

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offthewall   commented 10 days ago


Just to say, I've been an extremely active member here for 7 years. I've started a couple hundred projects and joined many hundreds and feel that Kompoz is a part of my life that I could not do without. As a Senior on a very meagre pension I honestly have struggled to pay the annual fee but it is truly my highest priority in my budget. Since the inception of SoundBlend I have had well over 200 songs submitted there and earned the whole of $30.52 which doesn't even get me a year's fees. I would hate the thought of having to pay someone for their work as much as I would dislike being offered cash for my services. I'm sure there are other places that provide this sort of service but I don't think Kompoz should be one of them. Just my opinion, of course.

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marshall2550   commented 10 days ago


See, I don't understand that thought process. You have a very unique voice and are an excellent musician. I am sure that somebody looking for that unique style of yours would be willing to pay for it. Your problem of paying the annual kompoz fee is now fixed. What is wrong with that???

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offthewall   commented 10 days ago


If I wanted that I would join that 'dedicated' site. Here I expect the amateur home recordist, like myself, to be learning and honing their skills .... maybe to get to a standard where they can join that other place. I have been helped in so many ways and have returned that a hundredfold by mentoring and assisting scores of new members here in my 7 years. To me this is the groundbed of Kompoz. Call it the development stage area. Feel free to move on elsewhere when you want payment. Just my opinion, again. :))

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RealAl   commented 10 days ago


You may not know it, but yours was one of the first projects I collaborated with. And I think I have earned .06 from SoundBlend with that... For me, I have always appreciated your input, and I think your skills continue to contribute to this community. Maybe there should be a mechanism whereby if I begin a collaboration that you contribute to, and we finish and I release on SoundBlend, you get Points toward your annual membership. I know you would still contribute, but it might encourage others to stay involved, and hone their skills...

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RealAl   commented 10 days ago


I think you said it very well.

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marshall2550   commented 10 days ago


I think some of the above posters are missing the boat concerning the "pay site". It would not affect you in any way! It would be a separate site that you do not have to enjoy if you so choose. That site though could and most likely would attract more musicians to this site. More musicians=more fun potential! If you feel that the better musicians will not contribute to you songs you are so wrong! Any musician whether they are just beginners or super professional are capable of writing a really good song. REMEMBER THAT! When someone pays for a studio musician they are going to get exactly what they want or will quickly move to the next. To me personally, playing guitar and writing stuff is for fun. Mixing and mastering are a job. I want paid for that!

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liljoe6string   commented 10 days ago


+!

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WillaWay   commented 10 days ago


I have no problem with an artist reciving any sort of financial gain from their work. I would like to see this 1 site focused on rather than being "split." I think the Kompoz that we have now still has room for a lot of potential growth.

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liljoe6string   commented 10 days ago


vtru

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MikeJM   commented 10 days ago


Now, the question that begs asking ... since a paid site is based on musical merit ... us lyricists might have to pay for everything and never get paid lol ... in other words who is going to PAY for us??? Ha! In all seriousness... I can see the points being made on both sides :D

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ShannonB   commented 10 days ago


You get yours in copyright ;) What you do with iut after that is up to you. Promote, promote, promote! :)) *it

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RealAl   commented 10 days ago


That's correct, Shannon... Just ask Bernie Taupin

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marshall2550   commented 10 days ago


You know, I think you can log on to Kompoz via facebook...right? How is that any different? Raf can own multiple businesses. I do! It can be done. Customers of one of my businesses don't even have a clue I do something else.

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sreggeegg   commented 10 days ago


I hope I don't end up getting kicked out because of my testimony. ;)

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SidiousSounds   commented 10 days ago


what about this.... same old kompoz site, everything pretty much the same... EXCEPT... beside each plus/premier member there is a button that a member can push that "donates" to that musician, for them to work on their project in say under 2 weeks... That way we all get the same old kompoz where everything is FREE... but if you have some impatient asshole, he can pay a member to get it done... everytime someone donates, RAF gets a small percentage of it.... to me that sounds like the best of both worlds. no creating other websites. p.s. I would end this thread... everyone gets along, lets not create an issue... Just my 2 cents. LOL

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WillaWay   commented 10 days ago


A donate feature is actually a very good idea in my opinion also. +1

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BrokenBString   commented 10 days ago


I'd like to like that idea but I'm no sure I understand it. Donates what exactly?

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WillaWay   commented 10 days ago


From my understanding it would work the same as any donate button. The only issue I can think of is not being donated to for rushing to meet the project owners requirments. I do like the aspect of it being totally optional to members however. I think it hits several marks as everyone has different aspirations.

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marshall2550   commented 10 days ago


Raf already said it would be a different site and only a common log in. It's safe to say that it would be best that way because some here are so scared of the idea. BTW, I found Kompoz because more than 5 years ago I was searching for exactly that "paid" site and never found it.

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sreggeegg   commented 10 days ago


Interesting statement ;)

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WillaWay   commented 10 days ago


By "paid" site do you mean collab sites where artists offer payments to other artists for work? If so, those sites definitely exist, I can think of several as I type.

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RealAl   commented 10 days ago


Siduous Sounds: is this the Guy who wrote "Fuck your Feelings"? LMAO... I would like to contribute an acoustic drum DEMO, if you would upload a drum-less...

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SidiousSounds   commented 9 days ago


Your comment just made me bust out laughing... Hey arent you the fuck your feelings guy... LOVE IT. i archived all those files, and im working on a new version of that song. For some reason it leaves that version when you click on the song even though i "archived" all the files in it. Haven't figured out how to get rid of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulIOrQasR18

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sreggeegg   commented 9 days ago


Well, it was very interesting to read all the pros and cons. And I'd like to apologize to RAF if I've caused any trouble here. But in the end, I would agree with Ricky who says: "I do not like the paid performance idea and I will never pay for someone to play on one of my songs." There are enough other sites in the net where you can buy such services. You want more new members, and the solution to this problem is to give them the chance buy musicians ? I think there must be other options. I understand the idea of forming a "sister side." Well, many years ago the Champions League was installed in European football... The real football fans still call it a money machine today... ;) I also don't like the idea of a "donation button" (which didn't seem bad to me at first...) anymore. I would always have stomach pains thinking about who I would give a donation to and who not ;) Someone here said that soundblend is quite pointless in its previous function or something like that...? I agree with that. Releasing a song on Soundblend is the same as bringing the Song to it`s Grave. Soundblend does not have any links to the outside world. Nobody outside Kompoz knows Soundblend. Nobody will register there to buy songs. Maybe you could install some kind of "Kompoz- Youtube channel" or something like that to present Soundblend and our songs to the public ? Maybe a "Kompoz channel" on Spotify or similar sites would be possible ? Or maybe some kind of Kompoz Radio Station. I admit, I have very little idea what would be possible there... But I think that one could draw attention to Kompoz in this direction, and thereby win new members. Attention: For my last comment you may beat me: I hate the idea of bringing this money thing between us kompoz members. That is in contradiction to everything I like so much on this site ! If I want to pay musicians, then I can do that on many other sites on the net...then at some point the question arises why I pay an annual contribution to Kompoz. Again, please excuse my sometimes drastic statements...I am very clear that this is only my personal opinion, and that there are of course also many other opinions. I want to stay on Kompoz as long as I can. It is (currently) by far the best site for hobby musicians on the net ! Cheers to all

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offthewall   commented 9 days ago


I agree with everything you say here, Frank. Sometimes I make Youtube videos and when I do I always add a Kompoz reference in the end credits and usually put a SoundBlend link in the comments. Don't think it has ever done any good, though!

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BrokenBString   commented 9 days ago


The danger of introducing money to the Kompoz site is that as well as changing the relationship between collaborators, you endanger the "schedule-free" nature of Kompoz. If you pay someone to play on your song you will expect them to produce something within a certain time. As has been said so many times here, we're all busy doing other things and we fit our Kompozing around our lives, not the other way round. That's one of its great strengths for me. BTW, I'm on holiday in Orkney till the end of the month so if you need....etc etc.

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RickyD   commented 9 days ago


Paying musicians is like hiring a hooker. If my wallet is my most attractive feature, physically or musically, I'll just play with myself. Er, I mean by myself...

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sreggeegg   commented 9 days ago


Yep ;)

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dogbizkits   commented 9 days ago


A bit off-topic when it comes to why people leave Kompoz.... but to reply to Frank where he wrote: .... "Or maybe some kind of Kompoz Radio Station". That idea has been floated before. I still think it's a good idea - but there is the matter of having consistency in track levels throughout a 'show'. Most of the earlier attempts to do recorded shows were plagued with large differences in level between the tracks being played. A workaround in that respect would be to record shows and do post-production work to get inter track level consistent. A 'show' would be technically tricky to broadcast live and sound professional at the same because of that 'levelling' issue. Never say never though; shows with various presenters around the world covering the various time zones live would be really cool - but they'd need to have a *particular* kind of setup and make sure that they stuck to UTC time for show transitions between presenters. Just a thought.