Kompoz 3.0

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raf / Raf Fiol 1mo+10dy ago
Just posted...


   

11 people like this: oneheadedman, PabloGabriel, RaymondVanMelzen, Gemini, EllenDXY, YANNKIF, Midipunk, WillaWay, xterrabill, liljoe6string, MikeJM

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MikeJM   commented 1mo+10dy ago


Watching now . . . here's my talents under the new system: Primary talent: Songwriting-Lyrics Secondary talent: Being a Pain in the you-know-what to Work with for Musicians Edit: Oh, now that I got to the part about strong suits, I think I'll reverse those two, LOL! Kidding aside, this looks fantastic Raf. Keep it up! :D

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Teek   commented 1mo+10dy ago


+1

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PMTStudio   commented 1mo+10dy ago


kharma,motorcyclema,bussma lol

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xterrabill   commented 1mo+10dy ago


Bump/reward for members helping/contributing to new folks. A few of us go out of our way to do this as I am sure you know/have seen. :)

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liljoe6string   commented 1mo+10dy ago


i'll take a bump!

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Midipunk   commented 1mo+10dy ago


When I first joined this site felt is was rather 'cliquey', meaning you're either in the club or you're not, a karma system could exacerbate that feeling. Luckily enough people were empathetic and didn't leave me to wander off into the woods alone.

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Treid   commented 1mo+10dy ago


Haha I know what you mean about cliques... Especially when it comes to genres. "I span many genres... They call me the genre spanner..." (1000 points to anyone who gets that reference)

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BKWilliamson   commented 1mo+6dy ago


Agree TR. I write for many different sounds and love it !! I still gravitate to the sounds that bring out the heart and soul of my words. Although I may write something with one sound in mind, it often times winds up in a completely different and amazing genre. Anyway, I never went much for getting points for what I do. LOL Love you all !!

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raf   commented 1mo+9dy ago


"...a karma system could exacerbate that feeling..." I was actually hoping for the opposite. I'd like to hear more about why you think so. I am hopeful that -- with learning -- the algorithm can be continuously tweaked to encourage more cross-member collaboration. For example, Karma points might be increased when submitting to the project of a member with whom you have not yet collaborated.

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smg179   commented 1mo+9dy ago


karma points? really ? the thing is.. the magic of doing something for someone with the intent to be good hearted and giving,, is better. sincere. and more: true to heart "...without intent to better your karma points..sheeze..but you know that right? Question..Are You All looking for virtuous karma points or just hangin out writin music gettin along..? and yea btw the clique is real ..lol...rebel against the goofy old people clique!!..lol ( i named it that il take the creds.) dont ya agree. " eff the cliquies" "we know who you are.."put on your skinny jeans and chant with me..ha * disclaimer. this is my opinion. hope your doing well..) P.S. ( :clue a comin..: ) ask yourself..."what would elon do?" probably smoke one up right? *peace

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raf   commented 1mo+9dy ago


I agree with Astronut -- cliques are normal. Humans are social animals and we tend to gravitate towards other like-minded people. Kompoz is a large network. The Karma points system is simply designed to help you discover active and engaged users by bubbling them to the top. To be transparent, the Karma concept is a simple Gamification strategy. If done right, it can work well in social networks like Kompoz. It's just one of many tools that can be used to help encourage and influence certain types of behaviors. Or not. It might work for some, and maybe not for others. Certainly, It should not dissuade participation. If it does, we will pivot and try something else. In general, Gamification studies have shown that it can be a useful tool. Let's see.

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smg179   commented 1mo+9dy ago


yea thats what they said about cigarettes in the 50's i think ? but yea ok have a good one) thanks

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Breathtax   commented 1mo+7dy ago


nice work Raf..i feel like average response time in the last few months might be worth pursuing too.mnot in a shaming way but in a way that is more useful information.. .everyone has different lives and rates of availability - so to factor in something where you would know if you send out a request or they start collaborating..they've often followed up in the past; their past form..i'd find that helpful. i identify with your struggle..i tmust be difficult .. almost like trying to find a magic metric that represents the level, depth and as you say openness/support of collaboration that the user has had in the past...maybe "enthusiasm" as a metric could also factor into that too? :)

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Astronut   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Hi Pete. Cliques are normal on planet Earth, don't you think? It's a tribe/family thing that's been around since humans evolved from cow droppings. Find your own clique or embrace being an outsider and get on with it, right? Nothing wrong with being an outsider either. Who gives a shit if karma points exacerbate anything? Most of us will just do what we do, regardless of the system. I have a small number of friends I like to work with on here as I respect and care for them as friends/creatives. But, I'll also jump in on almost any project that inspires me provided it isn't something overtly religious or knowingly owned by Fox "News" Conservatives. I have standards, you know. :p

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MrPhilly   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Astronut You might have come out of a cows butt lol, but the rest of use were born from aliens lol or whatever stuff marijuana is made from.

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Astronut   commented 1mo+9dy ago


If you evolved from a weed that makes people stupid, so be it. :D The way this year is going, we may very well see an alien invasion the likes of War of the Worlds. \m/\m/

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minime   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Kevin you have write ! " Most of us will just do what we do, regardless of the system " These are some very wise words ! Let us see what K 3 will bring and we as user will find our individual ways to do the things we want do so like we want do them ! So it was - So it is - So it will be !

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Astronut   commented 1mo+9dy ago


We have adapted to change before and can do so again. We will continue to make music together and have a good time whenever possible. :)

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Midipunk   commented 1mo+9dy ago


r/angryupvote

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raf   commented 1mo+9dy ago


LOL! By the way, I do plan to add Reddit-ish up-vote/down-vote buttons instead of just the current "Like" button.

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WillaWay   commented 1mo+10dy ago


I'm looking forward to these new features! Thanks for all the hard work and communication.

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EllenDXY   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Okay karma points...that might work. Welcome to the Kompoz Culture Club?

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DocDaFunk   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Hehe If it's actually related to my very own karma points I hope Raf has planned for negative numbers or i'm gonna crash the site

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Redfish   commented 1mo+9dy ago


... just incase your carma runs over your dogma

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Redfish   commented 1mo+9dy ago


I seem to be unaware of any cliques .... and I'm happy that way

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minime   commented 1mo+9dy ago


I have no idea what cliques means in detail on Kompoz but when it means that people work more often with some people then with other people then " I am Guilty of this " ! When people have a good experience to work together what is wrong when this people do more often work together ?

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jjt   commented 1mo+9dy ago


I think there might be an Exquisite Corpse clique... but any and all are welcome!

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Gemini   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Will all existing membership details, endorsements, avatar, talents, followers, etc. be inherited from Kompoz 2.0? Karma is a great idea!

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offthewall   commented 1mo+9dy ago


I was just wondering the same sort of thing. For instance, on my personal website I have a page full of Kompoz song players. Will those embedded links still work from K2 projects? Also, what happens to all the (well over 200 in my case) songs that we have on SoundBlend?

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raf   commented 1mo+9dy ago


That's the goal. I plan to migrate projects and profiles to the new platform after the break-in period. SoundBlend tracks will migrate to the new "Radio" section on the new platform.

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ATLdrums   commented 1mo+9dy ago


What is the intended purpose of Karma points and how are users supposed to use them when engaging on Kompoz? For example, one guitarist has 9,000 Karma points and another has 1,500 - what information is that supposed to impart to Kompoz users? One may have been a member for a year and the other only two months. Since points can be accumulated solely by posting tons of tracks, they have no direct relation to quality. Also, doesn't this send a signal to new and prospective members that the "game" has begun long before they joined and they are way behind the curve? (when they may be excellent musicians). This all feels very XBOX videogame leaderboard-ish (v. a site for serious musicians), possibly incentiving points accumulation for the purpose of accumulating points, and contrary to the collaborative purpose of Kompoz.

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Gemini   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Karma points don't accumulate like endorsements. It's a rolling measure of activity level as I understand it. It also encourages collaborating with new members. And helps new members to find currently "active" players.....

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ATLdrums   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Doesn't one's collaboration and track history already do that?

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raf   commented 1mo+9dy ago


"...Since points can be accumulated solely by posting tons of tracks, they have no direct relation to quality..." Posting tracks is what we want. You're right that posting has no direct relation to quality, but in the video I pointed out that when a track is "accepted", you get double points. It may be that the algorithm will favor "accepts" even more, indicating that quality is important. "...doesn't this send a signal to new and prospective members that the "game" has begun long before they joined and they are way behind the curve..." This is a good point. I am hoping that this is not the case, and it's why points will expire. With expiring points, you can be an established member with low Karma if you're not activity engaged. I'll give this some more thought, but off the top of my head, one idea is to say that you simply need to attain a minimum threshold of points. Once attained, you will unlock access to privileged activities. For example, you can't post on community unless you have X Karma points. This example is designed to keep spammers out. "...Doesn't one's collaboration and track history already do that?..." Sort of, but a points system gives us more dimensions and nuances. The expiration concept mentioned above is an example. ***** This is all great feedback. Thank you. This is why I'm posting these videos, as a preview of the proposed features, before rolling them out all together. Keep the discussions going!

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Astronut   commented 1mo+9dy ago


"For example, you can't post on community unless you have X Karma points" Let's say someone awesome like Figsounds takes an extended hiatus, for whatever reason. Does he lose all of the "privileged activities" he had rightfully earned as a long-time, highly-active member until he posts enough new tracks to regain that access? Perhaps he should be grandfathered in for his almost 12 years of contributions here. As much as you want to encourage members to be active, it might not be a good thing to take anything away from someone who has given so much already. Just a thought...

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raf   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Great feedback. I'll give this some thought. Obviously, we do not want to penalize stars like Figsounds (and you and many others). I don't have all the answers yet, but I will say that not all points expire equally. Some points will expire more quickly than others. Also, I can see something like "levels" helping out here. Once you reach a certain level of Karma points, maybe the expiration logic changes or maybe some of the points lock in.

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WillaWay   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Possibly something like "badges" can be implemented, ones that acknowledge earned recognition such as "veteran status." These "badges" would be permanent and features/areas of the site would not be restricted once a badge has been awarded. - On a side note: Maybe the Karma Points could be worked into more of a "Loyalty Program." For instance say John Doe earns a specified amount of these points, for this example, we will say one thousand points. Those points could then be used as a sort of "currency" to unlock things, for example, unique titles, profile page customization options, an extra project slot for the year or possibly even a month of Kompoz plus. This I think would give merit to to accumulating said points. These are personal opinions of course, I also haven't the technical skills to determine the complexities of implementing said features. Regardless thanks for communicating with us throughout the site overhaul.

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raf   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Excellent suggestions. I especially like the loyalty angle.

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Froz   commented 1mo+9dy ago


I really like those ideas. Good input

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BKWilliamson   commented 1mo+6dy ago


"you can't post on community unless you have X Karma points." I don't think this sounds quite fair at all. As previously mentioned regarding "cliques", Some of us have tried working with a lot of different people and finally after a number of years have met the people with whom we relate and who we work best with... or with whom we "clique". We may do 50 to a hundred songs with each other in private collabs and then want to share what we have done publicly. Im my mind that process probably wouldn't generate many points. If that was the case then why shouldn't we just collaborate via email???

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LindenCircle   commented 1mo+5dy ago


there are mainly two groups of people on kompoz-those that don't like my ideas and those that don't like my ideas...:)

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Froz   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Thank you for the update. Good to see how the platform is progressing. Absolutely not sold on this concept so far. I dont see myself "farming " Karma points for the sake of it and will never bother checking others karma points . This feature taken from video games feels out of place to me. Pretty good stuff all around beside this though. Keep up the good work.

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DantheMan   commented 1mo+9dy ago


We had a point system before. FIGSOUNDS had like a billion points because he has a billion contributions and a billion seps to the site. He should be a kompoz billionaire by now and rightfully so, but then that system was discontinued or something.

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raf   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Correct. We actually still have that system, but it's not publicly visible anymore. It's used internally as a scoring system, which we use for very basic sorting and filtering. The new system will replace that. I want it to be very transparent.

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PaulM44   commented 1mo+9dy ago


The Activity Stream is the main element that I would emphasize for a metric. Before putting a track on I look at the Activity Stream for that individual. It tells me if they are still generally active. What would be a major improvement is if it showed next to their logo a little number showing days since last Login. Often I login to look around but don't make any changes or comments (like here) and it won't show up in Activity Stream. So a little number would at a glance tell me if I should consider this person active enough to work on that track. Maybe Karma could be two parts with this being a second number shown at the same time (different color?).

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WillaWay   commented 1mo+9dy ago


In the video Raf demonstrates a feature that displays ones last login on their profile page.

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WillaWay   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Seeing as I just came back from a hiatus, the leave was actually to better equip myself for collaboration here on Kompoz, by doing a overhaul of my "studio." There are several reasons why one might take a break, so I don't think inactivity is always a negative thing. I wouldn't want to detour someone who is willing to work with me just because I was away for a bit, and I think a integrated number into my avatar may do just that. Of course this is just my opinion, I don't mean to criticize in anyway, so please don't take any offense. I would suggest maybe a customized status notification, however. One that could be set as "away" or as a short customized message. This could possibly be displayed with the avatar or on the users profile page, this , I think would help to eliminate the fact that one has just abandoned the site.

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PaulM44   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Sounds good to me. The main point is that you would be communicating a forewarning to contributors of when you might return so they are not constantly checking to see your immediate response. I have seen many try to leave messages on the Community page regarding a holiday away (which gets lost almost immediately with the velocity of new messages). Even a color change / shape to the background border of your logo could indicate this, perhaps.

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WillaWay   commented 1mo+9dy ago


I am one of the people who uses the community page to post a message, to those I may be working with, when I may be away for an extended period. Purely out of convince. I often work on multiple projects simultaneously and to message everyone involved would be time consuming I think. I never considered the message being lost in the feed however. Thanks for bringing it to my attention, and to anyone I may have had a negative effect on by posting "Away messages" in this manner, my apologies.

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Redfish   commented 1mo+9dy ago


you could think about having Karma campaigns - each month the karma algorithm changes and the criterion made public - and the way you earn Karma points change accordingly ...... one month you might want to highlight best "duet" project .... another month ..... best newcomer collaboration with most likes, the next month ..... best kazoo collaboration ...... then ..... most new collaborators on a project. Yeah, yeah - it's starting to get silly already ... I Know. HOWEVER - MORE SERIOUSLY: I feel it would be ideal if karma points meant something more meaningful that just being top of a list for a month. ...... how about being able to spend the points to get extra public collaborations ... only to be used for community based projects or something that benefit people more concretely - for example?

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raf   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Love it. Great suggestion to "spend the points to get extra public collaborations." WillaWay posted something similar... "...Those points could then be used as a sort of "currency" to unlock things, for example, unique titles, profile page customization options, an extra project slot for the year or possibly even a month of Kompoz plus..."

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PaulM44   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Conversely, how about losing Karma points for ignoring tracks uploaded to one's project for 4 days or more. It could help indicate those who dump a new "collaboration" on and never return (at least 10 so far). And your Login Number (suggested above) might turn red if not Logged in for over 10 days.

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raf   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Nice!

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oneheadedman   commented 1mo+9dy ago


Hey Raf, I was thinking about cross country/culture/language collaboration the other day and I thought that some of the communication can be "formalized", so you don't need to even send a message that a translation might mistranslate (from-to English usually works, but they totally suck from say German to Hungarian). My idea is to have an uploaded file reaction system, which are basically just buttons or a dropdown: 1. How much I like the idea: 1-5, or "Not my cup" to "Amazing, exactly what I wanted" or as you see fit 2. Frequent feedback options: a. Recording quality issue b. Timing problems c. Pitch problems d. Reverb/echo problems ... 3. Requesting an action: a. please record it professionally b. please send tracks separately ... So really, all these options correspond to keys that are translated through your i18n lib, so people don't need to auto-translate in the vast majority of cases. ----- The other idea is to _promote cross-genre_ work. I would love to hear some of my mean metal tracks with a pop voice and some modern electronic synth over it. But people are really-really defensive about the style they are in; I especially like the comment "not my style" on a song that is nobody style yet - since the genre does not exist. I think jazz was nobody's style until somebody started it and found other people to play with them. So if karma system could motivate people to crawl out of their genres that would be awesome. ---- Finally one more thing. I love that you are reading and responding to people's opinion! Honestly months ago I thought this site is gonna be vaporware, but now I'm all fired up again! Just my 2 cents. Amazing progress!

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Redfish   commented 1mo+9dy ago


hi oneheaded man ... Id be happy to do a metal - brass collab with you

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Redfish   commented 1mo+9dy ago


it IS starting to feel like McDonalds employee of the month .... Ill have a happy meal please ..... but I want to be able to choose my toy

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RobAsh15   commented 1mo+5dy ago


So, I was wondering... What about a user who tries to be a good member, but for various reasons is unable to participate except on a time-limited basis? I'm thinking those that have physical limitations or those that have health issues that limit how much time they can sit at a computer or that they can spend making music? To make the case more specific, suppose that such a user makes very good contributions when they do participate, making them someone you would otherwise welcome on a project...? As far as the personality modifying aspects of such a system, I am obviously not one to speak to that. But, I am also disabled, and not in great health. I spend many hours a day off my feet, nowhere near a computer or my guitars. But when I start a project, or contribute to another member's project, I never do anything but the best work I can, and I strive to keep every promise I make. So, assuming my play style and skill level are sufficient for a given project, I am in all other ways a desirable contributor, with the exception that I cannot devote much time to the site or to songs. Won't something like this cause part-time, or casual members like myself to suffer a bit of a (perhaps) unnecessary handicap? Also... I pay for a premiere membership, which provides me more access to the site than I can take advantage of. But, what about offering a free month's basic paid membership as a premium for Karma? Seems to me if someone gets to use the benefits for a while, they might decide it's worth it to pay the fee every month to maintain access to them. I stayed a free member for a while before upgrading. Not because of the site, which I was enjoying right away, but because I'm just leery about paid memberships. That stuff can add up and get out of control in a fast minute. My wife and I are constantly having to review what stuff she and I sign up for online (mostly entertainment stuff for me and mostly shopping stuff for her) that we sign up for at $5, 8 or 10 a month and then don't use very much if at all. Maybe if I'd earned, and then used, a free month, I might have felt justified to upgrade sooner.

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ReggieB   commented 1mo+4dy ago


The Karma thing seems really strange to me ,it's like giving a dog a treat for sitting,I don't get that at all.Wierd