Sound Engineering & Recording

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tbase2000 / Tony Hill 2yr+10mo ago
Here's a new mix I just finished up (and edited again). Looking for some critique. Still uncertain about the low end of my mixes. Tear this thing up so I can make some adjustments. Thanks. Here's my final version after some edits and all. I feel like it got better. Just time to move on.


   

2 people like this: Octavian, JMurad

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lior   commented 2yr+10mo ago


Hi, good work. sound pro. something that might bother me is that the mix is over compressed and i would increase the level of the vocals. need to listen to it after it has more "air".

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VatafuGabriel   commented 2yr+10mo ago


Hy the bass instruments need to be tweek i meen to tweek in such way that keep less low tone!Because the vocal is pretty high!Altrough the mix sound live and is ok !Maybe the vocal could me more energety and not sow static!And please less compression (because it was eat some liveness!Cool composition !Sow the level bas is ok just the tone allright !?

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tbase2000   commented 2yr+10mo ago


Good stuff. Thanks. The huge compression comes from Landr magic mastering website. I'm not sure I like it yet either but it does get those levels after my mix that I can never achieve. Haven't started mastering myself.

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FingerFolkie   commented 2yr+10mo ago


For my ears, you don't need those ear-splitting levels. Good producers are reverting to detail and dynamics. Brickwalling is so 2015! Mix, don't master.

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tbase2000   commented 2yr+10mo ago


No disrespect, but where are the masters in this free internet society? This was another freebie/educational mix I did but assuming I did something for a client...who do I go to? My old experience was that's where the mix goes to the room with the guy with the computer. We all got them now. People want a finished product right now and if it's not going anywhere near the radio...why not give them a hot cd? How many people have burned cds in the past and played their favorite song after and cried because it was so much louder? I cried! Give me 0db!

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tbase2000   commented 2yr+10mo ago


I'm on your side with this argument though. I prefer the Landr low compression settings personally. I think time will tell but I'm gonna guess the client will prefer the louder version most of the time. Here's my choice for a subtle boost after mix low compression but noticeable volume gain...Landr http://https://www.kompoz.com/music/collaboration/711897/file/723970/4

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FingerFolkie   commented 2yr+10mo ago


Yea. There's a psychological trap involved in this loudness war. The client thinks louder is better not realizing that loud CDs will usually be played as song segments rather than whole songs. A more detailed dynamic sound is a hard sell to people who think loudness is the goal; loudness at any cost if-you-will. The track above is easier to listen to. My test for limiting and compression is to listen to the track at very low volume. If detail, or even whole instruments, disappear sumpin's wrong!

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FingerFolkie   commented 2yr+10mo ago


I have a bit of trouble understanding the word "mastering". What does that actually mean?

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tbase2000   commented 2yr+10mo ago


Kindda like Gold Plating in my eyes. No clue.

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conceptDIGITAL   commented 2yr+10mo ago


As a person who does both mixing and mastering, often both at the same time, there is a difference, but not as much as you might think. If you mix to have someone else master, you don't compress on the master bus and do as little processing there as you need to to get the overall sound that you are after. Then someone else takes the two tracks and compresses, tweaks the EQ, and overall polishes the mix. I'm kinda picky, so I wouldn't shop my mixes out to just anybody to master. For Kompoz, for projects I mix I do my own mix and master. If I was working on a large budget project I might find someone I really trust to do a pro master.

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insub   commented 2yr+10mo ago


You don't usually Master a single song. An album gets mastered so that there is a cohesiveness and flow from song to song within an album. Yes, you can master a single song, but it's not what you'd hire a Mastering Engineer to do. You won't see a high profile, 14 song album with 14 Mastering Engineers listed in the credits. There may be 14 mix engineers, but typically only one mastering engineer. The mastering engineer will also handle all of the various distribution formats and optimize for each medium (CD, MP3, etc.). Loudness still matters and I think currently YouTube has set the standard to shoot for. Their videos are loudness normalized to -13 LUFS according to most internet speculation sources and measurements. So, if you're over that then your music will get turned down , while if you're under, then it will get turned up and possibly limited by their system for which you have no control. If you're asking a client which version of a mix they prefer then you should loudness match the versions so that there is a true A/B comparison without the "Louder is Better Effect."

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tbase2000   commented 2yr+10mo ago


That makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

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FingerFolkie   commented 2yr+10mo ago


"You don't usually Master a single song." I agree, but something like half the finished singles on Kompoz are begging for "Mastering". What? The origin of the 'master' in music meant the disk that was used to print vinyl copies. It was the best mix the recording folks could produce. The music was a mix. The master was the disk.

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ragin9rfan   commented 2yr+10mo ago


There's a whole heck of a lot of confusion regarding that "difference" and insub is dead-on with his description of what a Mastering Engineer's primary function is. Volume matching each track and creating a level corrected final file with all the albums tracks in the order the Label/Producer/Artist requested to send to a cutting house who actually create the vinyl record. Now it's all about where the media will be "consumed" and iTunes/Pandora/Soundcloud all have their own way of screwing with your track before it hits the ears of the folks you're trying to reach with your #1 hit! There really isn't a "one size fits all" format anymore. The funny thing is is that when you really dive into the science behind these audio formats/codecs you can shoot yourself in the foot when delivering "too" hot a mix. The end result will sound LESS impactful because of these level issues. Critical stuff really, not to be ignored.

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VatafuGabriel   commented 2yr+10mo ago


Indeed!The Master was preparing the mix o acomodate in suport of the plexiglas then vynils.Because has a v eq shape curve due the nature of the medium that exceed in middle info by naturas of the medium .Hope someone understand me.Then all kind of mastering was coming .Acctualy we have numeros mastering formats and medium to choose.Didital and Analog that meens nondistructive and distructive!Liniar and nonliniar.General a mastering stage is request on A FULL ALBUM.This daya has arrise another kind of mastering direct on stems that is not quite right because come before mixing and somehow need to be also a mastering engineer to understand it and come after with a well done product .Sow often people ask me to master their voice before mixing and that is because they are not sound engineering trained people and cn not understand what is all about !Mastering is not fully requested only sometimes just light mastering or filtering for a certain medium or format.Be aware any transformation for medium or format will slightly act on audibility of the final product !For example a radio mastring demand is not a cd or media or ITunes one mastering.Reading some PDF on mastering will help you a lot guys unless you want take some short lesson or University for that .But please do not trust all you see on Youtube about it!Not always explained right or not always is true what is explained there !Sow the word for mastering could be "accomodate the final mix to ".I hope could help a little!Cheers!

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insub   commented 2yr+10mo ago


Vocals: Have a little mud, particularly noticeable in the beginning and when they get doubled/backing vox come in. You may want to severely cut the low/low-mid from the backing vox and leave the lead alone. I think the vocals are too loud too, compared to the rest, especially guitar. In this genre, I'd say, that the vocal should just barely be over the guitar. Here's what I'd do to get the vocal level just right: Drop the vocal bus all the way out. Lower the Master fader until you just barely hear the music semi-clearly. Slowly raise the vocal bus fader up until the vocals are clear over the rest, just barely. Also, I think there is some annoying vocal resonance in the 3kHz (not exact, guessing) area that could be reduced. Personally, I'd have some more reverb on the vocal. The song sounds kind of epic, so I think the vocal being a little more like it's in a great hall is appropriate. It sounds kind of dry right now. I would duck the reverb during the actual vocal a little so that it comes in stronger between phrases. Bass Guitar: Some of the higher bass notes stick out more than the rest. Maybe harder compression or automation on the bass. Drums: Are lacking some low end punch. Their balance is good though. Maybe tilt EQ the bass up a little or a little more NY compression mixed in. You could also try some NY compression on the master bus to give the bass & drums more oomph. Maybe all of these options together in extremely small increments for added effect. All in all sounds really good. Good performances and tone. Really great balance for the guitars. All my suggestions are for small changes...really small. Plus, my listening environment is not great, so keep that in mind.

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amerteck981   commented 2yr+10mo ago


well .. you have added alot of compression on this track . every time you want to balance between kick and bass always use vu meter for low end issue. best of luck .

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tbase2000   commented 2yr+10mo ago


Thanks guys. I made some minor adjustments and will take your advice on the next mix. I'm getting there. This is another practice attempt at mixing with about 20 tracks I think. Just for kicks I put up the low Landr mastered version and the medium Landr mastered version. I think for the gain in volume, the compression isn't that bad. You can obviously see it on the wave form but the medium kicks harder than the low compression. I also learned not to pre-mix anything with headphones like I did here. Was on vacation and did it all with phones. Got back and listened on my monitors and it was junk mostly. :| Don't do that at home kids.

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tbase2000   commented 2yr+10mo ago


Anyone that wants to practice with full songs with individual tracks let me know. Danny Leviet started a group and I guess we have about 8 mixers or so. Same idea as the Indaba mix competition but the only prize is other mixers tearing your work up and feeding it back to ya. Should be fun.

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VatafuGabriel   commented 2yr+9mo ago


I think ,is ok.From my perspective i ve been mixed in another way this song .Is more solid yours way !I like it also .From mixing perspective i could mention that is about a mixing problem not a bass problem!The lows are cool in certain section and not such great in other parts!You have been mixed from drummers perspective and it is nice too.It is a tight mix not a stereo mix.I ve been use less atack and more stereo perspective not just for the kit but also for entire composition .But could worth in yours way on radio !Certain you use and seems is yours tendintion to use much compresion on master buss!Sow to recap your bass instrument is tiny up level from my ears!

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tbase2000   commented 2yr+9mo ago


Last modification to this mix. I think our group is ready to move on to the next song. Can only stay on one song for so long before you just can't judge it objectively anymore. Thanks for the listens and comments. Great feedback. Next one coming soon I hope.